Leo Zagami
Illuminati Whistleblower
Part 1

Leo Zagami: Illuminati Whistleblower - Part 1
Video interview with Leo Zagami
Oslo, Norway, February 2008

Shot, edited and directed by Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan

Click here for access to the available media. (Click here for part 2 and part 3)

[Editor's note: some words in the interview have been difficult to transcribe. They are designated in square brackets with our best approximation.]

leo zagami

Leo Zagami (LZ): The weapons business is a big business. They make the cash. I was a rich man when I was in that kind of business. Now I am a poor man. Well, the difference is now I’m an honest man. Before, I was a crook.

… There is something that people are waiting for. Everybody is waiting for 2012. Why are they waiting for 2012? Why? Because they are hoping that this will lead to somehow a cosmic consciousness and the unveiling of certain ends. And that’s true.

… Why? Because you are a corrupt nation subservient to the Vatican, subservient to the Zionists, subservient to a New World Order that, in my opinion, is completely corrupt.

… This elections, we support the Democrats. So, Republicans are not in the least of support of the Illuminati. They can’t make it. McCain can climb walls, can do whatever he wants, he’s not gonna [unclear: be elected].

… And you go and study the history of the Vatican, you will find that, from [unclear: possibly Papa Rotti] to many other Popes in the Vatican, they have been practicing magicians.

… Practicing Freemasons, Grand Masters from various traditions, sometimes officially not recognizing each other, but still meeting there. Why? Because the Committee of Monte Carlo is a weapon dealers place. Because it’s all about weapons.

… a conspiracy, if we want, to create Adolph Hitler and make sure that this being did what he did so they could then claim the Israel state, everything in plan, so for the End of Times the Jews have their land.

… .If you knew in reality what these entities were you would not even touch them. You would just drive the other way.

… A Jesuit contacted an Italian journalist in the UFO scene and spread a certain amount of disinformation including the fact that the SIV was still the greater Intelligence in the Vatican, with what? With a hundred people, a couple of Benedictine Monks, a couple of nuns and a...? The Vatican includes millions of members worldwide. They all function as intelligence from the beginning of time.

... But you want to know more about the entities. Now, who is spreading this disinf...? How do they think... Zecharia Sitchin met with Corrado Balducci. Who is Corrado Balducci? Corrado Balducci is not only the “official spokesman” for the UFO in the Vatican. In fact, this is just a front. Who is he? He’s a demonologist.

… At the same time they accuse the American Indians: "Oh, these are pagans. What are they doing to us? We have to do the science, observe the stars." Oh… Rubbish!

… If it is to create a fraternal bond of death, like the Order of Death in the Skull and Bones, then a human sacrifice is required.

… What is magic? Magic is the calculation of the arts, with peculiar calculations around the symbols to evoke certain entities and have from them, if you want, certain gratifications.

… I believe we have a lot of ancient artifacts, ancient books, very rare texts, that could revolutionize the thought of mankind. But, as I said, because we will have to go to the next stage of existence in one way or another, the Vatican wants to adapt. So how do they adapt? They adapt with Corrado Balducci and the whole alien revolution coming into the Vatican. It’s incredible. One man and a couple UFOs and everybody’s happy.

… Because there is a tendency in humankind to have the worship for these entities that can give you terrestrial power. We were talking about the Annunaki, we were talking about Nephilim, but there is these entities. These entities come from other dimensions, other places in this universe. They can cross over into this dimension if we evoke them, if we call them.

Kerry Cassidy (KC): You mean Bohemian Grove as well, right?

LZ: Bohemian Grove is a different kind of initiation. There they like to dress up in even more fancy clothes, usually Republicans, a lot of whores. A lot of whores. A lot of prostitution goes on during the nights of Bohemian Grove.

KC: A fake sacrifice sort of ceremony, or a real sacrifice?

LZ: A real sacrifice. And most of the people in the mind-control sectors of Intelligence units, the people who are taking control of the Psy-Ops operations, they are occultists.

KC: Sure.

LZ: ...Because occultism and black magic is the most ancient form of military tool known to mankind.

… At the end there would be a war and there would be dead people on the ground because the moment they want to microchip me, I’m going to take out a gun and shoot at them!

Start of interview

Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. We’re here today with Leo Zagami and we’re going to be covering the Illuminati and their role on the world scene and exactly what their MO is, as well as their agenda. All right?

So, welcome Leo. And thank you very much for bringing us into your house. We’re very excited to be here with you here today and be able to get a picture of the kinds of things that you’ve been part of in the past, and maybe your vision as to where things might be going in the future as well.

Leo Zagami (LZ): My name is Leo Lyon Zagami. I am now 37, soon to be 38. I was born the 5th of March, 1970 from an English-Scottish mother and a Sicilian father, both of aristocratic origin. One represents the DiGregorio family of Sicily, which is an ancient aristocratic family connected to the sacred Roman Empire. While, instead, my mother is a Lyon family member of the Scottish Lyon family which is also the family of the Queen Mother of England, connected to the Queen.

So, basically, I was born within an aristocratic background. For that reason it was possible for me, from an early age, to enter what is the world of “the elite” and what you know as the Illuminati, that are still existing today in various forms and different disguises and this with different names. But mainly they work for a pyramid of power that ends up in Jerusalem and Rome and that represents both the Vatican and the Zionist establishment.

Today they are united to perform what they would like to be the New World Order, which is the result of their prophetic upbringing into this End-of-Time scenario in which they see the final result – the Kingdom of God.

Now, the Kingdom of God perceived by the Dark Illuminati, as they call them, because we also have Illuminati that are truly illuminated by God, and then we have the corrupt Illuminati, the evil forms of corruption that came into being and, at that point, to regain power, which they did, they unleashed a series of “Agents” around all the secret societies of the time and they also established or helped establish the Illuminati Order of Weishaupt, which saw within their members some very illustrious characters, like, for example, Napoleon, who was initiated himself by Cagliostro – Giuseppe Balsamo – when he was a younger lieutenant coming from Corsica.

And this changed the history of Europe because the great influence of the Jesuits upon, for example, Napoleon made sure that there was a clear revenge against what was perceived to be the enemies of the Vatican themself at that time. The Jesuits [unclear] waged a war towards their enemies inside the Vatican and this might have been also the Knights of Malta, I think that period with Napoleon lose, for example, that island – and their sovereignty on that island.

KC: OK, can you give me a definition of the Freemasons and how the Freemasons differ from the Illuminati?

LZ: The Freemasons come into being from a tradition which is both from the ancient craftsmen, they used to work within the churches, so the people who knew how to construct churches were the masons. They transmitted this craft and on top of that, the knowledge to build those churches was a sacred knowledge. That knowledge was given to them by the Knights Templars that were the ones who traveled far East and conquered the land of Jerusalem and made sure that for a long time the Vatican was in control of the Holy Land.

And so there is, basically, an ancient tradition that forms the Freemasons but it is a self-made, sometimes, tradition with a lot of legends that have been deliberately created to misguide people and manipulate them.

So then we have also the birth of the High Degrees of Freemasonry which are typical to what is known as the Scottish Rite system – for example, Cavalier Ramsay (a Knight) which represents the Stuart family which was a Scottish family that wanted to get onto the throne of England for a long period of time. But the Hanovarians had their best [Ed. note: got the better of them] and the Hanovarians created themselves their own form of Freemasonry.

So, in a way, Freemasonry was born with these two different oppositions inside, but they were oppositions just for the lower level of the pyramid because on top everything is united, even the [unclear: enemies]...

KC: So you’re saying the Freemasons and the Illuminati were united at the top of the pyramid? Even back then?

LZ: Freemasons are themselves a creation of the Rosicrucians, OK? Now where do the Rosicrucians come from? The Rosicrucian Enlightenment comes into being in the 1620s with a guy called Valentin Andreae. He spreads these Rosicrucian Manifestos that are secretly put in various places where people can see that there is a secret order, a secret college of initiated beings that existed from “before.” So they claimed that they were already an old order back then.

But who are really the Rosicrucians? Well, the birth of the Rosicrucians coincides with the neo-Platonics of Oxford, with what happened when Giordano Bruno, this important Dominican who was also put on the stake later on by the Vatican in the year 1600, the year of the Jubilium, because he was accused of being not only an heretic but of having used his magic and his evocation power.

Giordano Bruno was a guy of great intelligence and he went around Europe at that time trying to oppose in a certain way what the Vatican was doing, manipulating temporal power instead of spiritual power. That’s why Luther came around, that’s why the various schisms were happening at that time. Scandinavia was breaking away, The Netherlands, England drop already away. They were all breaking away from the Mother Church in Rome. So there was definitely a lot of problems back then.

Giordano Bruno went to visit Queen Elizabeth, became friends with John Dee. John Dee this great magician, this great alchemist. He instructed him on the secrets that only Giordano Bruno knew about certain ancient practices from Babylonia, from Sumerian times, and after that he traveled also to the court of other characters – the French King, the Spanish King. He met all the aristocrats of the time.

But what happened after was that this was the cornerstone, this neo-Platonic society with John Dee, Giordano Bruno...um...the inspiration of Tomaso Campanella, the inspiration of Roger Bacon before Sir Francis Bacon. This is the fundaments that really leads to the birth of Freemasonry.

The problem is, after, we have the evil Illuminati coming into the picture.

So what was the Rosicrucian tradition up until the birth of the Royal Society? It gets scrapped off the map for terrestrial interest.

So what they are trying to do in 1717 with the formation of the first Grand Lodge of Freemasonry at the Goose and Gridiron Pub in London – it’s already something corrupt because the Illuminati, the real Illuminati that preceded them, didn’t want in any way to have any kind of “deal” with the Church. One it's said Freemasonry was born itself as a deal between the Catholics, the Protestants and other people to meet up in common ground which was the Lodge.

KC: OK, but wasn't, isn’t the basic spirit behind...

LZ: Then we have the...

KC: ...Freemasonry and behind the Illuminati to be a search for enlightenment? Wasn’t that the root?

LZ: What I was saying is that, for example, until the birth of the Royal Society – Elias Ashmore probably was maybe one of the last truly genuine initiates - then what happened after... but even Ashmore himself was corrupt and was working as a secret agent most of his time, not as a truly enlightened being that is there to bring enlightenment. Most of this Freemasonic network started to be used for intelligence purposes, for purposes that were not the purposes, properly, of the people who originally founded true Freemasonry.

Where is true Freemasonry to be found? True Freemasonry is to be found in ancient times at the time of Enoch, who is called the First Master of Freemasonry. We talk about Abraham. We talk about the founding of the monotheistic religions – the coming of Moses, the coming of Jesus and then the coming of Mohammed. All these are part of a series of Illuminated Masters, enlightened beings, that want to bring illumination to this planet. Unfortunately all the religions, and Freemasonry included in all this, has been corrupted by mankind.

The intentions originally of these systems might be genuine, but these days, for example, Freemasonry. What is Freemasonry? For most people it’s a boring club of middle-aged people that go and smoke cigars, have a nice dinner; after that, some charity to justify their evil means. More they are evil, more they give charity in a certain way to cover up their evil, but this charity is tax deductible so it is not really...like they have no interest in doing this charity. There is always a tax deductible profit to be made.

KC: Well, is it really the Catholic Church trying to earn...to basically turn itself into the rulers of society, and owning all the money? And is money at the root of the corruption? Is that your understanding, or no?

LZ: Well, definitely. My experience in Freemasonry – I was initiated on the13th April, 1993, by the Insediata di Monreale in the Order of the Sword and the Eagle. I soon joined the Supreme Council of the 33-Degree. As an aristocrat, I got initiated by a family friend, somebody who was close for many centuries. The family, the Alliata family in Sicily (princes) family is close to the DiGregorio family.

So these aristocrats are actually passing on high degrees or Masterships within Masonic orders is not so unusual. In America it is unusual. In fact a lot of viewers from America, when they see me talking about the “Duke” of Kent, or the “Marchess” of Northampton, or the “Prince” in Italy, or the “Prince” of Monaco that would have been in charge of all the Masonic things, they kind of tend to say: "Ah but it’s not really how we’ve been brought up in America, because here Freemasonry is a common thing for everybody."

First of all, Freemasonry in America is not for everybody because there's been a lot of racism and that's why Prince Hall Freemasonry is born. That’s why in the year 2008 we’re probably going to have the first Freemason from Prince Hall Freemasonry to become the president of the United States, which is a 32-degree member, which is Barack Obama.

So the thing is, is Prince Hall Freemasonry taking revenge upon the many injustices they have? Well, at the end of the day, Prince Hall Freemasonry is born to be recognized by the Grand Lodge of England. That’s how Prince Hall, the founder, got recognized himself, as the first black man to get this charter from England, being able to start this order only for black men, at the time only for black men. And...er this...

KC: OK, what is the significance of that?

LZ: The thing is the Prince Hall Freemasonry comes into the realm, then, of being subservient. In fact, now this is recognized now for the first time, I think since 2001 or recently, a few of the Prince Hall Freemasonry Lodges started to be recognized by England officially.

Now they are officially being submitted to the power of the United Lodge of England. Because when you get recognition from the United Lodge of England, at that point, you are just hanging to become part of that “chain”. That chain that is born upon an aristocratic chain because, as I said, the Grand Mastership is given to the Duke of Kent, the Marquess of Northampton...

Who are these people? These people are, in reality, in charge of Holy Orders also, for the Church, for the Anglican Church but connected to the Catholic Church because, for example, the Knights of Malta: When the Reformation came into act, they split themselves and became the Knights of St. John in England, your Knighted Order in Sweden, and a network of the Knights of Malta under the sovereign monarch but the sovereign monarch himself – to wear that cross - is a copyright. You have to pay somebody. Sooner or later that copyright will always lead you to the Vatican and every sovereign monarch in Europe has been submitted to the Vatican power, even after the Reformation, because they were very clever to say: We want to ask independence but that was so the king could have many wives, the other guy could divorce, and anybody could do what they wanted.

KC: But the root of power…

LZ: But the root of power is the Vatican. The Vatican also has a bank, and I was a Freemason belonging to the Monte Carlo Lodge, born out of the P2 Propaganda Lodge of Licio Gelli. The Monte Carlo Lodge founded by Ezio Giunchiglia, William Rosati, Licio Gelli back in 1976 and modified during the course of time, stayed as the Committee of Monte Carlo, a representation of senior Freemasons from all various parts of Freemasonry, Grand Masters from various traditions, sometimes officially not recognizing each other, but still meeting there. Why? Because the Committee of Monte Carlo is a weapon dealers place. Because it’s all about weapons. It's about the sale of...

KC: OK. It’s about economics. It’s about running the world.

LZ: It’s about doing wars, it’s about selling weapons, it’s about making money. That money goes into banks. The bankers are very powerful. But also the weapons dealers are very powerful.

KC: OK. So who’s at the top of the pyramid? Who, specifically? Is it the Pope or is it someone else?

Bill Ryan (BR) [off camera]: Or is it the Black Pope?

LZ: We have to first of all divide power into temporal and spiritual power. OK?

KC: Right.

LZ: But the thing is that these two things are linked, like two keys or two eagles watching one side or the other like the 33rd degree Masonic symbol. This is the oppositions watching each other but linked still and, obviously, the Pope was always linked with the Emperor. So if the emperor of today is the President of the United States, that’s still under the Pope because the spiritual blessing comes from the Pope.

KC: The Pope’s a very old man. Is he really in charge, or is someone else in charge?

LZ: We have the Pope. Then we have the Jesuits. Many people say: “Are the Jesuits in charge?” The Jesuits are in charge for many years of the Secret Service of the Vatican. Which is also…

KC: Do you know any of these people?

LZ: Yes. I have photos if you want, with the head Jesuit of the Inter-religious Dialogue Department of the Jesuits.

KC: What’s your agenda?

LZ: In fact, recently I have been accused on the Internet of being, myself, a Jesuit agent because of pictures of me with senior Jesuits. Now the problem is, why I have picture with the senior Jesuits? Because I was involved in Inter-Religious Dialogue and up until even recently as last May I participated in an Inter-Religious Dialogue meeting here in Oslo where the senior Jesuit was present – which is Thomas Michel - and for people it is strange that enemies can meet up. Well, I was critic towards him, in front of him, but we still meet up. We don’t have to go around with guns and shoot each other. There has to be a level of dialogue above all, even between the enemies and this has happened always, since the beginning of time.

Now, if the opposition has only to be one guy like Alex Jones shouting with a microphone in front of a building, well that is a very stupid opposition for me, sorry. Opposition has to be a constructive opposition, we have to propose some alternatives, discuss some possibilities...

KC: What alternative would you suggest? What is your vision or what would your vision be? How would it be different than the Jesuits’, say? Vision for the world? Different spiritual path? Different occupation? Different preoccupation? How would you be differing from him?

LZ: Sure. Well, my intention is to reveal today, tonight, whenever you’re gonna see this video, a few things that might shock you. Like for example the revelation that in the Vatican itself, we have over 40 Cardinals that are Moslem and that are practicing the [unclear: possibly Geufan/Geushwan] which is a specific holy book that the Moslems use for specific purposes, and called the [unclear: possibly Geufan al Kabi/Kabili]. This book has been left to the descendents of Mohammed for a specific purpose also leading to the End of Times.

KC: What is the purpose?

LZ: To be able to control that evil, those evil forces that, for example, the majority, unfortunately in the Vatican practices with the Black Masses, with the evocation of certain entities, with the use of these demons. Now people may say: "Ah, how it is possible the Pope is evoking demons as well?" Well, if you just do a little bit of brief history lessons and you go and study the history of the Vatican, you will find that from [unclear: Papa Rotti] to many other Popes in the Vatican, they have been practicing magicians themselves, using evocations, publishing also material on these evocations. Through who?

The Jesuit Order is in charge of the esoteric side of the Vatican. This has happened because the esoteric order is very important for the Vatican as it includes all this secret information regarding the evocations and how this should be done. So, since the time of the Reformation the Vatican didn’t want the prophets and words to be left out of control. They said: "OK, we might leave them independence, but in the meantime we have the Jesuits controlling them in any way possible." Also through these links like the secret societies, and then the Rosicrucian became corrupt and became themselves part of the Jesuit conspiracy, in the 17th century...

KC: Are you familiar with the SIV?

LZ: The SIV is a secret intelligence of the Vatican supposedly, came into being during the period of the Second World War. The fact that it is still operative is a minus group of people compared to the secret service of the Vatican in the Knights of Malta. The Knights of Malta are the biggest secret service in the Vatican. They have diplomatic immunity. They have international sovereignty. They have a Grand Master which is totally sworn to believe that he has to be the true defender of the Pope and inside this membership you have the head of the intelligence of the MI6, the head of the CIA, the head of the NSA. The “Top Cosmic Secret” [security clearance] is for them, the most secret thing in the Vatican headquarters.

When you are in charge of the Vatican Library, and the people in charge of the Vatican Library are the Jesuits, then you have the Knights of Malta. So, basically, the SIV, what is? The SIV was, and still is, but limited compared to how it was used in the period of the Second World War – immediately after the Second World War – because after the Second World War it had to be used for the protection of those Nazis that needed to go to safe places… in the hands of the Americans, in the hands of… So...

KC: Why protect the Nazis?

LZ: Protect the Nazis, because the Nazis themselves were actually born out of a conspiracy, if we want, to create Adolph Hitler and make sure that this being did what he did so they could then claim the Israel state, everything in plan so, for the End of Times, the Jews have their land as it’s figured out in the ancient prophesies. So everything has to work in that way.

So the Knights of Malta, as I said, are themselves the head intelligence operatives in the military field; the Jesuits in the information and disinformation field. Now what happened with the SIV? The SIV, as I said, in the last 50 years has not been incredibly used but sometimes it came into action though the fact that the...

KC: Have you met members of the SIV?

LZ: I have met members of the Intelligence of the Vatican.

KC: OK, including the SIV?

LZ: The SIV is itself something that has been used in emergency times. OK? And I would like also to say that there is, unfortunately, today the disinformation coming from Jesuit headquarters. This information comes into being when Zecharia Sitchin meets in the year 2000 in Bellaria with Corrado Balducci. Zecharia Sitchin also gets invited by the Pope, John Paul II, visits secretly the Pope in the Vatican, takes from him instructions to write his pile of rubbish, which is the End of Days book that he has brought into being lately.

KC: You’re saying that Zecharia Sitchin was told to write this book, and was instructed on what to write?

LZ: Zecharia Sitchin was indeed instructed because he can’t tell the truth. This guy is deliberately spreading disinformation because he can’t reveal, really, the truth without causing problems for his cause, the Zionist cause, the cause of the Vatican, which he has... embraced...

KC: Are you saying that Zecharia Sitchin is a member of.... what? The Illuminati?

LZ: Absolutely. Zecharia Sitchin is a member of the New World Order used to spread deliberate disinformation.

Let's say...I want to just figure out how this happened. When at the end of the 1990s in the alternative media certain information started to spread, especially regarding these Anunnaki beings – call them Nephilims, call them however… you know...

Now, what are they really? Do they really want you to know what they ARE? No. They want you to know what they want … You know, their idea that they want to spread, is something of a big constructed lie which is disinformation. It is not the real thing. If you knew in reality what these entities were you would not even touch them. You would just drive the other way. [gestures turning 180 degrees]. These entities...

KC: Well, tell us… what is the real nature of the Anunnaki? From your point of view.

LZ: OK, OK. I will tell you. It is interesting how the Jesuits spread disinformation. A Jesuit contacted an Italian journalist in the UFO scene and spread a certain amount of disinformation, including the fact that the SIV was still the greater Intelligence of the Vatican – with what? – With a hundred people? A couple of Benedictine Monks, a couple of nuns, and a …? The Vatican includes millions of members worldwide. They all function as intelligence from the beginning of time. They all go to confessions, the Catholics [unclear: work or word] They are part of an intelligence system run by the Vatican. That’s how it is from the beginning of time, so they definitely don’t need only one apparatus that can do that.

Then, if you go and study the history of the SIV, you see that is a Jesuit-based thing, that it’s full of Jesuits. So, and then, on top of that, who is running the astronomical laboratories for the Vatican? The Jesuits. For example, in Mount Graham in Arizona, nobody asks what is happening? I can tell you what is happening. I can tell you also what they are doing.

KC: Well, tell me.

LZ: So this disinformation goes through, and then hits the appropriate sources and they can say: "Ah, OK, there is a Jesuit footage of Planet X." Another pile of... the biggest pile of rubbish ever! Could only come out of the minds of the Jesuits! Why? Because the Jesuits are very intelligent. They can figure out how to take – sorry if I say very low words – the piss out of anybody, because they are really masters of deception. I worked with them. I will show you some pictures, after, of these people, but how they work…

KC: So what is their motive for this disinformation?

LZ: All right. So you want to know more about the entities. Now who is spreading this, how do you think…? Zecharia Sitchin met with Corrado Balducci. Who is Corrado Balducci? Corrado Balducci is not only “the official spokesman” for the UFO in the Vatican. In fact, this is just a front. Who is he? He’s a demonologist.


LZ: The biggest exorcist in the Vatican.

KC: Right...

LZ: That should already make you think: "OK, there is a connection here between the alien myth and the demonology." Now we found also that this connection is very much alive when most of the people who are spreading the disinformation regarding the alien beings have been from the time of Aleister Crowley and his following, the followers of Hubbard, or whatever. But these people have been deliberately spreading disinformation.

But to a certain extent Hubbard knew the truth as well as Crowley because they said themselves… I mean it was Crowley who said: "You called them gods. Then we called them angels. In 50 years we will call them something else." He showed the image of “the lamb” who was the first image resembling an alien being. This is genies. In Islam we call them genies. Djinns.

KC: But by any other name, what are we talking about? We're talking about spirits? Are we talking about a demon is nothing other than a spirit being? A being who is perhaps not incorporated in the material world?

LZ: No, it can incorporate. The thing is that there is a certain degree of misconception. OK, Let me tell you exactly what happens with UFOs. UFO: unidentified beings, OK? Or objects that fly around. Either they are military stealth operations which can’t be disclosed, or I think they are operations regarding the evocation of genies, coming from other dimensions. So, an inter-dimensional door is created, it is opened up. Where can these inter-dimensional doors be opened up? In certain spaces, in certain places. The “holy ground” from ancient times known to possess that possibility, purpose…

KC: For example, in Iraq?

LZ: No. Not Iraq. Just go to Mount Graham and study what the Jesuits are doing up there. There is a war between the American Native Indians and the Jesuits since the Jesuits have tried to build this observatory. And why is that? Because the Indians have used that mountain as holy ground for thousands of years and there is a specific entity living on top of that mountain – but on another dimension – when he wants, he can be called upon into this dimension, and evoked.

The Jesuits... just what they want to do. In the meantime they accuse the American Indians: "Oh, these are pagans. What are they doing to us? We have to do the science, observe the stars!" Oh … rubbish! [Kerry laughs] What they are doing… they are, yes, observing the stars and the planets. Why? Because you always have to reflect above/ below, whatever, you know, this rule of the Tablets of Hermes. I don’t need to go on with what is the main rule of the Freemasons – it is always to reflect below what is above. But it is to evoke these entities in a specific timeframe and this has to be carefully calculated.

What is magic? Magic is the calculation of the arts, with peculiar calculations around the symbols to evoke certain entities and have from them, if you want, certain gratifications. You can work with them. I, for example, will tell you a story, which is a family story from a relative of my wife actually, who I think it's her uncle or granddad, or whoever, who started working with these entities, these djinns. Why? Because he had a little ranch, an American-style ranch, with animals, where you are planting things. So he was alone. He wanted to find some workers.

This guy was very clever because he knew certain secret codes within the Koran that shouldn’t be used. He knew how to use them. He knew that reciting certain prayers in a continuous motion he would evoke certain presences and eventually he got to make a deal with them and they were working for him at night in the fields, doing all the field work. And a lot of Americans would say: "Wow, I’d love to have that going on in my place," you know? [laughs], "I could have a couple of these genies coming to work for me."

But that means subjecting yourself to those entities. That guy had to sell his soul. More than that, he would be enslaved by those forces for the rest of his life. In fact, he had to continuously recite these prayers and then not recite it at certain times and whatever, otherwisehe will take, for himself, a disaster and so....

KC: OK. Well then, let’s talk about you, for example.

LZ: ...and these entities also do the same thing that, what Americans call "abductions". I found reports in Middle-Eastern villages, many Middle-Eastern villages, of abductions, but they’re not going to American reserachers and say: "I saw a UFO." You’re not going to find anything. Instead, these entities have appeared, have manifested, not only have took people inside their dimension, in their own kingdom, they have basically kidnapped people, sometimes beaten them up and then thrown them back into this dimension. And this happened many times, but they are called djinn.

KC: You’re using a different language to deal with these entities. Who cares what you call them?

LZ: Yeah, but you have to be specific here because the moment you call them “UFO” you are doing exactly what the enemy wants you to do. The moment you call them “aliens,” you are doing exactly what the enemy wants you to do.

KC: OK. Let’s talk about your background a little bit.

LZ: No, let’s finish about Planet X because Planet X is very important. If we don’t finish it...

KC: Sure! We want go there, but I’d like to first talk about… You must have been involved...You have not sold your soul. Is this correct?

LZ: At a certain time I sold my soul. I hope that God will grant me that I will be forgiven for what I did and I will be able to ...

KC: Because you did evocation? You must do this as a....Do you consider yourself a Master, at this point? You’re a 33-degree Mason...

LZ: 33-degree is an honorary title which I didn't give much importance. The 90 and 95 of the Memphis and Mitzraim, which is an Illuminati rite of the Freemasons, which is itself a certain specific Egyptian rite, I give a bit more importance because there is a lot more esoteric evocational knowledge to...

KC: Sure and you must have meditated and prepared yourself and have the ability to do certain kinds of magic, yourself. Right?

LZ: I was prepared since I was a kid to enter a reality which was very different, probably, from the mainstream reality. My English grandmother was called Felicity Mason, well known in the scene as Anne Cumming for having written a book called The Love Habit. She was a very high degree member of the Illuminati. She gave me the first book of Aleister Crowley as a gift when I was 11 years old. It was The Book of Thoth. And from her, a lot of things...

She had incredible friends. You can go and check even on the Internet, the friends of Felicity Mason were Brion Gysin and William Burroughs. William Burroughs, one her best friends. I met incredible people from The Pet Shop Boys to Sting, all the singers, the rock artists, and at the same time also the writers, very avant garde. I met Brion Gysin in person more than one time, I met also when I was...

KC: Sure. But you can do magic and not be an evil person. Isn’t that right?

LZ: The prob...no, that’s the thing. Unfortunately I discovered after many years, and I have to say this is the final result of my studies, that if you want to stay within the magic realm of respect for God and everything… I mean, magic exists. You can stay in its magic realm but you don’t have to move anything around and become an active part of it, because that’s dangerous. It’s forbidden to do any magic in my new religion which is Islam, what I've embraced. It’s forbidden because it’s too dangerous.

So I would also advise people that are entering the “New Agey” kind of scenario where you have a lot of this spiritual practice that are somehow misleading and most of them also manipulated by the usual Jesuits, like the Hexagram. Now, the whole thing brought by Gurdjieff... but if you go and study who is dealing now with this system and who has been behind the system now, and you will see the usual Jesuits.

The fact that the Jesuits are even present in the New Age movement is not acknowledged by New Agers, but they should wake up. If this information from the aliens and the path of the Planet X, or whatever are the spiritual practice, is coming filtered from them, it’s because there is a reason. They don’t want you to perceive the REAL matter, the real reality…

KC: Well, what is the real reality, then?

LZ: The real reality is that we are definitely in a constant fight between angels and demons, between the devil Iblis who represents the dark side, and God. Now, if we accept that everything in nature all around us is itself part of God and a representation of God, we are all emanations of God. You are one emanation of God in this moment. He’s another [indicating Bill off camera] emanation of God in this moment. And I, al hamdu lillah, am another emanation of God, probably not the best, but at least I try. [Kerry laughs] We all manifest… You see, God has a thousand and one names, many different ways of being...

KC: Good and evil as well.

LZ: Good and evil, absolutely, because Iblis itself is the devil, yes, but the darker side of God, created itself by God. So obviously there is no creation, neither in the dark or the white side, that is not part of God, because God is the input, the starting input to this whole universal consciousness and also unviersal reality in the material plane. It was by an act of grace of God that we are here today on this little minimal, infinitesimal planet in a lost solar system... that we are here today. Talking like this. Why? But we also have our own history. We are reflections of God in many ways, and we have been granted the possibility of choosing where to go. We want to go towards God or we want to go towards the darkness?

KC: So tell me, your moment of realization in which you departed from being a member of the Illuminati. What happened to you? What made you change your mind?

LZ: See, it was in a very specific period of time in my life. It was… actually, my wife was pregnant, waiting for my kid that was after born – he’s a [unclear, possibly krumi] and love very good. He was born on the 7th of July, 2006, on a very specific day, very symbolic also for me because a year prior to that I was in London just a week before what happened on the 7th of July and I have to tell you that definitely the whole of London was flooding with Psy-Ops and they were working all kinds of manipulations to pull off what they pulled off that year, which was the terrorist attack in the tube station, an underground station, just one block away from where I used to live. I used to live in Euston Street, just down the road from my bureau, so I could have been myself dead. I could have been, if I was actually just a few more days in London.

But what I realized was that through a series of acts of grace, God has given me the possibility of still being here. In the year 2003 I started to clash with the Illuminati, especially the American side of the Illuminati, which was made up of a series of occultists, all very presumptuous, with various secret societies all manipulated by the CIA in one way or the other, but still loyal to the New World Order planning anyway.

KC: How did you disagree with them?

LZ: I disagreed with them… Initially I tried to find a possibility of a meeting. We wanted to celebrate the 1904 anniversary. What’s that? The revelation that Aleister Crowley made in 1904 was the revelation of Aivass, the messenger of Horus, or basically Horus, this god from ancient Egypt.

KC: Horus.

LZ: Yes. He delivered the book that the Illuminati took somehow seriously, which was this Book of the Law, which is the biggest pile of rubbish in the world. But it also is a very dangerous book. It’s a heretic book. I don’t see many books being so heretic, but if there is one that definitely has all the blasphemies, it is The Book of the Law of Aleister Crowley.

KC: OK, but...

LZ: But also all the contrasts because this book says, on one [page], a beautiful word – [unclear: quoting a foreign language] or "Each man and each woman is a Star.” Beautiful words. Incredible.

But then you have in another phrase these terrible things: “The law of the strong should prevail, the Mary should be torn from the cross, Mohammed should be…” Sorry. [unclear: arabic sentence] Sorry what I’m saying, because really what is in this book, the Book of the Law, is everything and the contrary of everything, which represents really the Luciferian character of Aleister Crowley, and the fact that he found many adepts for what was to come in the years after him. You see, Aleister Crowley managed to plant the seeds very carefully into America, in California, with the Parsons' Lodge [Agape] which Hubbard became a member and then after he founded Scientology. But he managed to plant these seeds very well, also in Canada.

And from these seeds, a revolution came into being, that became after the New Age revolution. Because 10 years after the death of Aleister Crowley, William Burroughs and others were practicing at the Beat hotel his rituals; and then years after that, we have the 1960s revolution which is a whole hymn towards Aleister Crowley’s work, if you want. On many sides it’s been manipulated, the 60s. And I must say very sadly we have to understand that this manipulation went... especially for the people who were more innocent, who became victims of these gurus coming from India were deliberately spread into the West with their fake and false… showing a little bit of their techniques, that obviously the Western man… because the Western man is now so distant from this spiritual reality and the possibilities of the spiritual also becomes the material. So these two realities are connected.

That’s why, when before you asked me, who is more powerful, the Pope or the President? Well, the thing is… does the President die? The President of the US, or not? Yes, he dies. One day he will die. He can’t be immortal, OK? So he has to meet death. Well, for him to meet death without the approval of the Pope is to be, basically, scrapped off the map, because they themselves are relying on those blessings and that network to bring their power to the successors, to the people after them and to the people after and after them.

KC: So you’re saying one hand of this washes the other. But to get back to your own realization, your own change. You went against the main Illuminati…

LZ: Yes. At the beginning, as I said, I…

KC: How did you differ?

LZ: At the beginning what happened was this. I wanted to see if it was possible to give a stop to certain practises of evocation of certain demons that were really dangerous for mankind. I thought at that point I could eventually move on the positive side of things, this movement, also the esoteric movement which is very powerful and taking a lot of people within the New Age field, and beginning somehow toward the realization of something more positive.

I thought that Aleister Crowley was definitely NOT positive because it’s not the way forward. Aleister Crowley has been put there for a purpose, which is to be "The Beast". Now, the Beast is not the best character you have in the Apocalypse. So, in the transformation toward the End of Time scenario and the realization of a Revelation, there is something that people are waiting for. Everybody's waiting for 2012. Why are they waiting for 2012? Why? Because they are hoping that this will lead to somehow a cosmic consciousness and the beating of certain energies and that’s true.

The manifestation of these energies on Earth will be very strong because the cosmic scenario – the alignation [alignment] – the way the planets are coming together... the stars and the whole universe, is something that happens to be connected to the “Holy Number of God”. For the Illuminati, this number is 25,920. Twenty-five-thousand, nine-hundred-and-twenty. Part of it is 2,160. This becomes the change of an era.

In Stonehenge, from the eastern gate, we will see the sun. That will be the moment of change for humanity. From a certain “Age” we enter another “Age” which is an age full of psychic power and of metaphysical strength, and we have to deal with it. But the powers that are on top of us, what I have been fighting now since I came out of it, is people that unfortunately want to use these powers to their own advantage.

If the guy from the CIA will go to the Grand Master – Lon Milo Duquette, for example, who is a famous occultist in the US. He has written many books. He’s the guy who writes the introduction for the Aleister Crowley Manual.

KC: What is the name again?

LZ: Lon Milo Duquette. He’s the deputy-Grand Master of the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis). He is living in California. I met him. He came here to Rome. I took care of him in London at the time in 2001. Just prior to 9/11 we were together. There was a secret gathering here of the Illuminati in the mountains here in Norway – of this branch of the Illuminati – because I don’t say that the OTO is allthe Illuminati. It’s a small branch, dedicated to manipulate the young culture especially – because each one has their own specific thing, this New World Order.

The Rotary club is built for the businessmen. Then if you want something more of a thrill, then give them a fancy apron, lift him a couple of sleeves, initiate him into Freemasonry. And after that, if you see that the guy is ready to be manipulated even more, well at that point you get him into the elite. You get him into the Illuminati Order. You have the Martinists, you have the Rosicrucians. All these orders have been corrupt by greed. In the West there is no such thing…

KC: You said you were a host to this head of the Illuminati in the United States...

LZ: Yes.

KC: …you were calling him.

LZ: But what, he’s the head of the Order of Templi Orientis Illuminati, which is the official representatives of Aleister Crowley. They are the ones who have the copyright over the works of Aleister Crowley.

KC: Fine, but did you find him to be under the thumb of the Jesuits?

LZ: No. Under the thumb of the CIA.

KC: The CIA.

[Leo/ KC overtalk]

LZ: Just a second. He was under the thumb… On one side, he was under the thumb of the CIA because he wanted to be a loyal American. Apparently, he thought that by working with them, he could help them with his knowledge. He’s particularly clever with the Tarot. He’s the Grand Master of the Tarot Association in the United States. And at the same time, he’s also clever with the Enochian Tablets and the use of that. And he has written many, many, many books.

KC: Do you consider him to be a Master?

LZ: He’s definitely a master of the esoteric. But he is, for example, somebody who is used, like I said, by the CIA but also from the Jesuits on the other side. Now, he himself thought that he was opposing somehow the Jesuits or the Knights of Malta or even the Skull and Bones because he was initiated at the level that he didn’t have the knowledge of the level on top of him. But the people on top of him, for example, William Breeze, who is the head of the OTO in America linked to Alberto Moscato, who himself was working for the Vatican, for… Corrado Balducci, for the Jesuits and for the usual thing.

When, for example, this Corrado Balducci was mentioned to me the first time – it was, I think, maybe spring of the year 2000 – that he was mentioned in connection...from Alberto Moscato. He said: "This is my dear friend in the Vatican. I have, you know, I'm working with him." And he himself, Alberto Moscato, that died in mysterious circumstances, he was the head of the Italian OTO. He died in mysterious circumstances just a year and a half ago.

KC: Hmm. Do you know why was he killed?

LZ: Two years ago he was killed.

KC: In your opinion?

LZ: Well, I know why he was killed.

KC: You do? And why?

LZ: [laughs] See, the thing was a little bit my fault.


LZ: Because when my superior in America... which is Giorgio Ugo Balestrieri, Commandante Giorgio Ugo Balestrieri, who is the director of the Rotary Club in New York, who is also a P2 member. Now, people on these Masonic info websites in America have accused me of being a fake, but then I have proven them over and over again with official documentation, which is always in my hands. [lifts large stack of notebooks toward the camera. Kerry laughs.] I remember to all those people out there.

KC: Yes.

LZ: That I was involved with these people, and that Giorgio Balestrieri was also an illegal weapons dealer, a guy in charge of the defensive strategies for terrorism. He’s the guy who after 9/11 first made a lot of business selling security equipment to the American airports.

KC: And this was your head?

LZ: This was my head for the project which was… no, because we each have a superior, you understand. Yes?

KC: Yes.

LZ: Appointed by another superior. Now my official head was actually my mentor in the P2 was Ezio Giunchiglia, the head of the Monte Carlo Lodge. But he presented me to Giorgio Balestrieri because he wanted me to have also an international approach and also have the possibility to build up in the international division of the Rotary Club, which is based in New York, which Giorgio…

KC: Are these arms dealers, then?

LZ: Yeah. Yeah.

KC: The Rotary Club?

LZ: The thing is, the Rotary Club there is a lot of good people. They don’t know, but they should investigate. Now I would just invite the people – just go on the Internet. Punch in Giorgio Balestrieri. See he was officially involved in the P2 by the list that was taken by the police in 1981, so the name is on the list. There is no “how,” “but,” or this or that.

The guy would have been arrested if he still had an Italian passport but he has been given an American passport and he has also been given the possibility to be the director of YOUR Rotary Club in America. Why? Because you are a corrupt nation, subservient to the Vatican, subservient to the Zionists, subservient to a New World Order that, in my opinion, is completely corrupt.

Now to accuse me that I will not be eligible to join the Rotary Club, because that's the accusation that the Freemasons have made to me: "Oh, Leo, how is it possible that you… well, you know, you could never have joined the Rotary in any case." Well, if I’m not eligible and I’m not an assassin, I’m not a murderer... In any case I never did these two now but Giorgio Balestrieri who is being convicted officially and also of being a weapon dealer in the Livorno Port of Italy during one of the darkest periods of the Italian…

KC: So this Balestrieri -- is that how you say his name?

LZ: Giorgio Balestrieri.

KC: OK. He is the head of the Rotary Club? Now?

LZ: Of New York. Right now.

KC: And he used to be sort of your superior.

LZ: Yes. Until I left the Illuminati.

KC: And you're saying he’s an arms dealer, or was?

LZ: Yes. Sure, sure. He still is. He is one of many.

KC: Was he arrested?

LZ: No-no-no-no-no. If he went to Italy at that time with an Italian passport… He’s an American now; he’s untouchable now. He has an American passport. He’s untouch... He’s not any more an Italian.

KC: Tell me something. He’s Illuminati.

LZ: Yes.

KC: Is he also part of Majestic 12? Do you know who these people are?

LZ: No. I never … in my personal experience, Majestic has been always an organization mentioned mostly by conspiracy theorists without foundation. I never found any realistic existence of this Majestic 12, or this Majestic organization…

KC: Committee of the Majority? You do not know these people?

LZ: If you talk to me about the CFR, the Trilateral, these are realistic things that exist, the Bilderberg, they are tangible. You can touch them. The Illuminati – they exist. I was into an organization which I can show you [reaches for his stack of documentation] the documents and that was the Universal Illuminati at Monte Carlo Lodge. These are things I have experienced...

KC: OK. What about James Jesus Angleton, because he was...

LZ: Sure. He was a Knight of Malta.

KC: A Knight of Malta. OK.

LZ: So? Now we want to say where the Knights of Malta meet up because now, recently, people are asking: “Do they really meet up in the Via Condotti for decisions, or is there another place?” Well, I said to a Knight of Malta who emailed me recently, a few things about his old order and he was shocked and at the end he said: “Oh, I didn’t know you knew so much and I have to apologize for my first approach.”

This guy is called Bryan Waltlick from the Knights of Malta in Ireland and when I talked to him that the real meeting place of the Grand Magistry is on the Aventine Hill. In fact that’s where they had the funeral and where they showed the body of their Grand Master just a couple of days ago because Grand Master Andrew Berti died last week.

There is something that is happening at the Vatican in the last year or so. First of all we had the changing of Cardinal Ruini with the Cardinal Bagnasco – that was Bishop Bagnasco before for the Conference, Episcopal Conference, in Italy. Then in January we had the elections of the new Jesuit Superior General, which is Adolfo Nicolas – so somebody who is now completely different from Hans Kolvenbach, as a character. He’s coming from a different experience though, obviously, the aims of the order are always the same.

I know that Adolfo Nicolas has been also close to Thomas Michel because they both come from Asia. One was in charge of the province in Japan, the other one in Indonesia, and so they were close friends in their work. So what I heard last year before the elections was definitely that Father Hans Kolvenbach was too old for carrying on his job properly so somebody new had to be called in. I think that they are renewing the blood. They are trying to bring fresh young arms to the whole system.

First they renovate the Jesuits. Obviously they couldn’t kill Kolvenbach. [laughs] Kolvenbach himself was a little bit too much of a manipulator and would not have been so killable. But instead I have a couple of doubts on the sudden death of Andrew Berti, especially after...just a few weeks after the election of the new Superior General, because he was in quite good condition. He participated to all the latest diplomatic meetings of the Knights of Malta with various heads of state and things like this, so it came to me as strange news, though I’m not anymore in that circle. I can’t confirm or not if there is being some kind of murder behind the scenes. But in the Vatican, that is very highly possible, you know, to change somebody.

KC: Are you still in touch with some of the people that you knew? You know, some of the members that were close to you back then?

LZ: Yeah… some people. Very few, though, have the courage to still… I have actually even a Masonic Obedience in Italy which is called Grande Oriente Italiano del Piazza de Gesu, which is not connected in any way with the work I was doing prior. They invited me to participate to a Lodge meeting on the 10th January in Rome. So I, basically for the first time after two years, participated to a Masonic Lodge meeting, in a Lodge that invited an anti-Mason, or at least somebody who is perceived as such by the majority of Masons.

But why they did that? Because the whole Obedience is not corrupt, is not fearing… They have contacts with the Jesuits, with Padre Caprile in the ’70s, the Grand Master prior to that... They have always been...This is a Scottish Rite system, so they have a tradition which is obviously quite linked to the Vatican in some ways especially because... Grande Oriente del Piazza del Gesu, which was specifically linked with the Vatican. But at least they had the courage to invite me in a fraternal way to a Lodge, instead they didn't do what the Grand Lodge of Maine did – which threw out a whole page full of rubbish on me and accused me of being this and that, eh?

KC: OK, but they invited you. What purpose would you have in going?

LZ: I went. I went. I’ll show you the pictures.

KC: I understand. But what did you hope to accomplish?

LZ: What I do is to talk openly about what is, for example, the Jesuit influence upon the Scottish Rite, which is an historical influence which – this goes back three centuries, so it is interesting, and there is also an historical point of view – to discuss with them the influence of the Vatican upon certain branches of Freemasonry, to open their minds against what is the New World Order. Trying to discuss and find if there is a way of dialogue now. For example, there was in this Lodge, the Garibaldi Lodge, some very interesting people, also some Intelligence members from the Italian Intelligence. Now we gathered together. We had a great laugh, a great dinner after ,where we talked about the Brigidine (nuns), the order of… all kinds of…

KC: So they’re not necessarily all corrupt. Isn’t this right? There are some them that must be…

LZ: What I did is this: instead of participating to a Rite meeting... Rite? What is the Rite? The Rite is every meeting from the fourth degree onwards to the 33rd. That is the Rite. Then you have the Order, which is the first three degree. In reality, you see, a Freemason can’t be more than a Master Mason. The higher degree is the 3rd. And for me, keeping it simple and down to those three degrees, actually it’s still possible for me to go in a Lodge and not practice anything that I can really call as satanic.

OK, you have the death and rebirth myth of the Hiram Abiff – but that’s like Osiris – is a kind of death/ rebirth myth that goes on from ancient times. So the Mason is made to believe he’s a Hiram Abiff, he’s killed, is then resurrected by the Masons there, is given the various grips, the various signs to recognize himself with others Masons worldwide.

But when you enter in the Rite, for me the Scottish Rite is corrupt. I said that. Why? Because part of the degrees have been created by the Jesuits.

The York Rite is corrupt. Why? Because part of the degrees has been created by the Zionists, other parts of the degrees have been created by corrupt people close to the Catholic, but also close to the Anglican, Church for various reasons.

And so at the end, Universal Freemasonry is not really universal.

(Continue to Part 2 and Part 3)


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Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy