Project Camelot | Dan Burisch 2002 transcript

A video interview with Dan Burisch
by Bill Hamilton and 'BJ' (Marci McDowell)

Las Vegas, September 18-19, 2002

(The original video streams from Google here)

[Transcriber's note: this transcript has been carefully checked. It is complete, apart from one or two inaudible phrases which are marked. A number of other existing transcripts of this same interview on the internet are known to be incomplete, having at least one major missing section.]

Editorial notes in [square brackets]

Bill Hamilton: Okay, now this was unusual, right? You were taken to the Dulce facility...

Dan: This was the first time I was taken to the facility at LANL. [Los Alamos National Laboratories]

Dan: Initially, I was not told why I was being taken up first to Watertown, then over to the Sector 4 facility [the infamous S4, outside of Area 51]. I was asked to view certain slides at the Sector 4 facility which showed the papilloma virus, and these slides were set up on a transmission electron microscope. [inaudible]... They asked what my knowledge was of papilloma virus. I told them it was limited, and then they told me they needed to take me to another location.

So we boarded an aircraft -- a very small Lear jet -- and we flew to a small airstrip. I think we went East. We HAD to have gone East because the general geography says we went East. After landing, I boarded a chopper. It was like a Blackhawk chopper to the best of my knowledge. I'm not an expert in aviation, military aviation, at all. The Blackhawk was "blacked out" -- no pun intended -- and we flew from the airstrip into what I was told was a part of LANL.

From there I was loaded into a white van and taken up a road which was very bumpy. They finally, after about 15 allowed us to raise the blinds on the van. I saw a couple of road signs, one of which was a square sign with black lettering, white background, that said "R4".

I was then told we (myself and 2 other gentlemen) would be taken into a facility which was code-named "Sweetness". They asked me if I had ever heard of the "Dulce Facility" or the alleged "Section D" as you mentioned the other day. [here Dan smiles as he leans towards Bill]. I believe that's what you were referring to. I told them I'd heard of it only briefly, that it allegedly existed, and there was a lot of unique tinkering that went on in the biological field in that facility.

We were routed to the left in the van, taken to a large door. The door opened and we were met by two gentlemen, one of which was wearing a US Marine Corps uniform. Another one was wearing a gray polo shirt with a black collar. There was a red patch -- a very prominent red patch -- with a blackened triangle and something within the triangle. You had asked me about the orientation of the triangle. It was an equilateral triangle. One of the points was down. So it would be flat on top. Again, as God is my witness, I'm trying to remember what was inside. It bothers me if I can't remember a pattern.

But we went inside. They greeted us. We went around to the left where a guard provided us with an orange badge. We then went in a series of roll-up doors which exited to a small foyer. Over to the right was an elevator. The elevator took us down to the first level down.

While we were going through the foyer, I noticed there was an "FM1" sprayed on the door. The FM1... I don't know what that meant, I was never told. If it's anything like the 4-1 -- for Sector Four Level One at Papoose Lake -- then I would make the assumption that the "1" stood for "Level 1". The "FM" I don't know. After traveling down one floor, we exited. (This... turned into a crazy bit of funny business.) [here Dan smiles wryly]

We exited the elevator. They changed our badges to a blue badge. We re-signed in. We were fingerprinted at that point, brought into a small room, and were told that they had some business that they needed to attend to with us regarding the papilloma virus. They asked whether or not we had been briefed on the papilloma virus. At that point, myself and the 2 other gentlemen kind of looked at each other and went "UMMMM?!?!?" [Dan makes a weird sound and chuckles], just what we were asked a few hours ago. They basically looked disturbed, like somebody had dropped the ball.

We then went with our blue badges in hand to a second set of elevators, went down one more floor and exited where they gave us our orange badges back (or what looked like our orange badges). Following our orange badges, we entered into a... well, I've never been to the New York subway, but it looked like a small monorail system, something like Disneyland's "It's a Small World" monorail.

We traveled probably several hundred yards on the monorail, exited, and were greeted by a staff scientist who then told us that he would escort us down the hallway to show us our areas of responsibility. At this point they had a near civil rebellion on their hands because we didn't know what-the-hell they wanted us for. I was starting to get worried at this point that they were basically just taking us further-and-further into the facility and gradually doors were going to lock.

But given the number of guards they had in the facility -- and I should've said all along the way -- there were people with what looked like AR-15s It was not a place to fight anybody. So we went down the hall and into the briefing room, at which point we were requested to perform an analysis of plasmid recombination involving restriction enzymes on a variety of tissue -- to remove segments of a retrovirus fragment from a variety of tissue -- and to, if possible, associate that retrovirus fragment with the genome of a papilloma virus.

Dan: The source of the tissue was listed with a J number and a K number. The 2 scientists that were with me did not immediately know what that meant. Given my experience at Sector 4, I knew fairly quickly that I was dealing with a J-Rod sample.

Dan: Yes. The J-Rods are still defined -- even though what we know concerning the issue of the Paradox -- they are still defined as "Extraterrestrial Biological Entities", given the dissociation of time between Earth and where they end up.

Dan: I don't do things without a reason. The 2 scientists that were with me I didn't know from Adam previous to the meeting, but I kinda spilled the beans and I let them know about the K-24 samples at Sector 4. The K-24 samples at Sector 4 specifically involved the research project having to do with Project Aquarius for which I was one of the Working Group leaders. Ummm... pardon me, but these are very difficult things to say with a camera staring at me [Dan is nervously toying with his glasses as he speaks.]

Dan: [smiles darkly] I have no choice!... BUT... [laughter from the hallway; Dan stops and stares darkly at the doorway for a moment.] Following "spilling the beans," we were separated into three separate rooms. Now proceeded the interrogation. They wanted to know why I told them about the K-24 samples; and it's the old axiom if you're asked "Why?" you ask "Why Not?". The interrogation ceased fairly quickly at that point, and we were brought into a Clean Sphere environment -- external capsule Clean Sphere environment -- where we were told what the real purpose of the project was. [long pause] ummmm... Now I have to be VERY careful... [smiles grimacingly]

Dan: [interrupting, in a rehearsed, annunciated monotone] Having had no previous experience with biological warfare [looks around] (and I don't have a polygraph hooked up to me here)... Having had no previous experience involving biological warfare materials, it came as quite the surprise to me that they possibly would be considering the usage of an alien retrovirus recombined with a terrestrial viral genome for possible use in BCW activities, or at least possible use in activities which could move toward biological warfare as applied terrestrially. [long pause]

Dan: This was inconsistent... I should say: The potential for its use in that type of an environment was inconsistent with my ethical boundaries. It would have exited the ethical boundaries that I place upon myself as a scientist and that I believe society places on me as a scientist. It also would far divert from moral value boundaries that I believe that my Creator would place upon me as a human being. Therefore my answer was 'No.' ---- And I thought that was it, and I don't mean my "participation." I thought that would've been "all she wrote."

They agreed to house me in the facility where I went with my cute little orange badge to a residential unit a little further down the tram line and one level below that (they did not change my orange badge when I went one level below). My experience in the time that I stayed in the residential unit there was horrifying. You know, when you hear human beings screaming in pain?

Dan: [long pause; he grimaces, sighs in anguish with eyes closed, obviously in pain at remembering] I think I've said what I need to say.

Dan: [nodding his head yes] 4-3. Level 3... which is basically considered the 'housing unit'. It's been called various different things: It's been called the 'Museum', the 'Housing Unit', the 'Hall of Tortures', an 'Animal Retention Facility'. One of the horrifying things about the S4 facility is traveling in the elevator system. There is enough of a sound conduit in the elevator system where you can hear the sounds of the 'test subjects' from the 3rd floor while you are in the elevators on various other floors.

And the sounds are akin to what I heard at the Dulce facility. Every once-in-awhile you could hear the sounds of other vertebrates -- dogs, cats, monkeys -- screaming. Some of which are just natural behaviors due to how they're being kept -- very sterile... When I say 'sterile' I mean a non-conducive-to-play environment, more of a housing facility like a kennel. And then you occasionally hear the sounds that [here he chokes up] you know are one of your brothers and sisters...

BH: Now J-Rod was kept on the fifth level, the bottom-most level... to your knowledge... in a clean environment?

BH: Part of what the J-Rod breathed -- part of what was the atmospheric mixture that J-Rod was breathing -- was that different from our own oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere, in what respect?

Dan: In the respect that the larger partial pressure of the environment was hydrogen, and in so doing we have a pressurization and a temperature difference. It was an extremely cold facility within the Clean Sphere. There was insufficient oxygen within the gaseous mixture to support human life -- 'human' as we understand it presently. In other words, if I would have been introduced into the Clean Sphere not wearing a TES [suit], I would have died fairly rapidly from asphyxiation and from cold.

Dan: [nods vigorously] Yes! Well, it was flammable depending upon... not flammable at the temperature that it was being maintained at.

Dan: It was extremely cold! Yes. I don't remember the exact number [degrees]... it's been a long time ago since I was in there.

Dan: [smiles knowingly] Oh, you're probably referring back to the Q94 document. That is, in fact, a date [murmuring as BJ comes in to the room]. '94 is in fact a date. The number would be 109 -- the infamous "109a", and b, c, d, & e. Unfortunately, the rest of the document didn't [pauses]... leak...

BH: Now this latest... [here Dan interrupts, finishing his thought, obviously experiencing painful memories, saying "I'm sorry... I just thought about how it got out, and what happened to my friends... "]
... Now this request -- which you turned down at Dulce -- and they weren't too happy about I'm sure...

Dan: I re-turned the request down the following morning, at which point I was threatened to be maintained as a permanent resident [smiles sardonically]. And I asked whether or not I would be taken to the 'kennel', would that be the result of my residency? And they kinda laughed it off almost carelessly, and I was transported later that afternoon back to the Air Force base here at Nellis, from where I was taken back to Watertown [insider slang for Area 51], whereupon I was released [chuckles darkly] to my own recognizance back to my residence.

BH: Did you feel like you gained further insight as to what the Program is about, and what Majestic is doing?

Dan: [interjecting] Well, I know full well what Majestic is doing on a few different levels. I don't know all of the activities -- I wouldn't be privy to them -- but I know full well about the activities involving the association of the J-Rods. I know full well the 'work' that they have undergone involving Raindancer, which is a compartmentalized project within the chemtrail project. And I know full well what their involvement is with regard to BCW work [Biological and Chemical Warfare] involving the retroviruses.

And (a) I agree with trying to help, but moving cautiously; (b) The second of the two, I am in disagreement with the philosophy because it was the employment of a heli-case restriction virus, and (c) I am in total disagreement due to moral and ethical reasons.

BH: Now, was there any indication to you that we're still caught on a timeline that is probably headed for future catastrophe?

Dan: [long pause... he mulls the question over] You're talking about the Doctrine of Convergent Timeline Paradox?

BH: Yes. The Convergent Timeline. You might want to talk about that a little bit...

Dan: Well, as I understand it -- as I understand, I've got no personal -- how can I have personal experience with a time paradox? [shrugs shoulders, gestures pleadingly, smiles almost incredulously] Aside from living in the reality within which we exist... But from what I understand, from what I've read, and from the conversations to which I've been privy, we are in fact living in a chimera, a reality chimera -- which hodge-podges together the reality time-line that we would normally associate with moving from 'A' to 'B', cause to effect -- with the nexus being the passage of clock-time... and a hodge-podging together superimposed onto that in our reality of errors that we made in our future, to attempt to go back into our past to correct the problems of our future.

Those results have hodge-podged a... rather than splitting a time-stream as maybe such people as Michio Kaku would posit. I'm no theoretical physicist. I'm just a lowly biologist that looks at patterns. But it hodge-podges together -- in a real sense to us -- those things which are to happen in the future with our present timeline due to an interruption of the time-stream.

Instead of splitting into two time-streams, what happened is as soon as we mucked around with something, we overlaid a second time-stream into the present reality. And the problem with that is -- as I understand -- we did it more than once, so what we have is a snowball effect of time-stream upon time-stream upon time-stream [loops his hand continuously in the air].

Dan: Yes, more of a... well, from my framework, say if you're moving from 'A' to 'B' [here loops his hands again, and points to where the loop returns to rejoin the string] looping like this, and each of those nodes would be an overlay of a time-stream. So the more we muck with it, the worse we get.

Dan: [starts to half-nod diagonally] The critical period, according to the history [here face breaks into incredulous smile] which has not technically been written yet. If you walk outside and say this [gestures grandly towards the door], they are going to charge you with incoherency! [laughs, then whispers "I had to say that!"] The history has not been written yet, if you walk outside here. [now he is extremely serious]

But according to the history books that I read, there is a 'difficulty' unless there is further overlaid something in the time-stream that either corrects it or gets us out of the paradox within which we live, which I don't know how-the-hell that would happen. I don't pretend to understand that kind of stuff. Put a slide in front of me and I'll do a micro on it, okay? [here he is smiling and addressing his response to BJ]... [returning to Bill and the camera]

But yeah, around 2012. We're talking about the famous December 21st, 2012, and the Mayan issues. The Catastrophe is alleged to have [occurred] and to occur at or around that date. Yes. And what we can do about it, I have no clue. I have no clue.

Dan: [nodding] Following the Catastrophe, there is a split between those individuals who take a more spiritual path and would move forward to places such as the Moon and Mars and then onward from there to Orion, and those folks who take a more rudimentary path because it's the alleged 'spiritual' nature of humankind -- from their philosophy at that time -- which led us to not deal with the pressing problems of the day because we were too busy fighting our petty religious battles -- that then go off into a more 'logical', 'mathematical', 'numerological' philosophy. Those folks who then progress SLOWER because of the lack of ambition -- the lack of spiritual ambition -- then gradually moving off to the Reticulum area who then become the J-Rods.

BH: Now, by what process do they become [J-Rods]; is it some kind of radiational mutation that takes place in their cell structure?

Dan: Well, the adaptive radiation occurs time past the Catastrophe. Now this is according to what I've read. All right? Now the only thing I can say for sure -- say for damned sure -- is the interaction with the being that I had at Sector 4 [S4]. Now I can say nothing authoritatively about the peculiar adaptive radiation that occurred toward Orion -- the spiritual half of the species -- following the Catastrophe aside from the few things I've read about it and petty chat going on at, uh, Jehovah's. But the J-Rods undergo adaptive radiation to the form that we see presently... uh, the word 'presently' is kind of relative when it comes to these issues now; but 'presently' due to time and exposure after they've moved off to Reticulum.

The height began to decrease as a function of micro-evolutionary changes. The eye size, the same; the eyes started getting larger -- which by the way is an interesting thing -- because as the eyes were getting larger, and this was before the true darkening occurred, via the cover lenses, and the double lensing, the double lid system that they have [here Dr B toggles his fingers to describe the double eyelids of the J-Rods] which is a very beautiful architecture, but the... something happened, with their traveling back into time. It's part of the problem where they actually landed in the 'Land of Enchantment' [tag line for the State of New Mexico -ed.] before the structures changed for their eyes.

BH: [slowly, amazed pondering the meaning of the words] The 'Land of Enchantment'...

Dan: Yes, and I'm not so certain how close the young lady was and how this all fits in even in my own life. Miss June Crain. [remember that Dr B's given surname was Crain, which he changed in '95 at his own request; June Crain is mentioned in much of the lore surrounding Roswell -ed.] But the little folks which were obtained there were not fully -- what I would say -- fully "grays" at the time, and could not be called J-Rods at the time because they had not moved later on to the Gliese system to gradually hopefully try to correct the problem that they're making worse for us but... [here Dan heaves a huge sigh] paradoxes.

BH: So this may have been at some point where they had developed space and time travel, but not at the later stages, maybe the earlier?

Dan: Well, their evolution hadn't even been completed at that point -- "completed," meaning to the point where I had had experience of meeting the 'gentleman' that I met at Sector 4. [pause] It's difficult... we were trained to call them 'specimens' and they're just frankly not specimens. People are 'people'. But they had not developed the darkening system yet.

And in effect, that was a micro-evolutionary change which occurred because of the particular solar issues which were going on on the planet that we -- meaning the shorter folks -- moved off to, and these changes were just beginning to take place at the time when they were working the time travel issues and landed by whatever means in '47, so their eyes actually contained a structure which -- while larger -- were very similar to ours. Which they don't have now.

But that may account for the varying opinions between the darkened eyes and the structure of the eyes that the eyewitnesses provided from -- I guess it was -- the Brazel ranch or something like that. I understand there was some sort of differential between the two descriptions. I have not seen any of the bodies or anything like that from the Roswell issue, so I can't speak for certain. You asked me to "free-wheel" in this situation, so I [here Dan leans forward and gestures apologetically toward Bill and the camera]...

BH: Right. And you didn't specifically get briefed on what happened at Roswell, I take it?

Dan: In the briefing books there were mentions, OK? And there was probably a very heavy specific briefing in there. But when I was first brought up to the Groom area [part of the Area 51 complex -ed.] when we were provided with the briefing books, frankly I didn't care. I thought I was up there -- to be very honest with you -- to work some sort of bio-remediation project?... Uh, more leaning to what ended up in reality as the Raindancer program.

You know, the Raindancer and the chemtrail program because I was extremely interested at the time not only in the histology and the histopathology but I was also extremely interested in biospherics, which is what got me interested in -- what forwarded me in with the N.A.S.A. folks and the A.B.L. project -- the biological laboratory project, etc. So I wasn't particularly interested... and in fact before I experienced the 'gentleman' in the Clean Sphere, I frankly thought, honestly thought, that those people who believed in aliens were tin-foil heads. [Here Dan shrugs his shoulders and shakes his head, then chuckles wryly saying "Egg on my face!"]

BH: Were there to your knowledge other aliens at the Dulce facility, or were you not made aware of any?

Dan: I was, in fact, made aware in a conversation that there are processes underway whereby they are, in fact, producing hybrids. [pause] And this is... it's just inconceivable. We're in the middle of a paradox as it is; we've got our own progeny making our paradox worse! [pause]

And we're ADDING to it! God only knows where this is going to lead to simply because we're PRODUCING these, these... I don't want to say 'monsters' because I don't know WHAT it is, to be very honest with you. I do know that we've taken the process of natural selection and thrown it out the window! [Dan is getting passionate now].

And not only have we done that, we've done so willfully and with negligence toward our own future! It's extremely angering to me because I'm watching us -- boy, I'm gonna hafta watch my language here! -- I'm watching us muck our world up worse, with indifference.

Dan: ...or almost! As soon as you add two things together which are not meant to be together, [here he turns to Bill and gestures with his forearm] it's the old thing. If you want to go into the popular movies of dinosaurs and men being separated by 65 million years of history -- in that Jurassic Park movie or whatever -- the rape of the natural world, well by God he got it right! We're raping her! [Dan is really impassioned now; you can tell this is what has gotten him so angry]... And damn us for it! Damn us for it!

Dan: That they didn't tell me! Not specifically. I can theorize what they're doing is they're taking the Aquarius project and they're taking it to the next step -- the next level, if you will. Kinda like taking the atom bomb and turning it into the hydrogen bomb, no matter what evil comes out of it.

BJ Wolf: At the end of the Q-94 document, you make some rather strong statements against doing exactly this.

Dan: Wild types [at this point Dan's demeanor becomes grim and passionately determined] See the problem is this: we have viruses which are resident within our genome. When you begin combining -- cloning if you will, a seriological clone. When you begin doing cloning -- that's a better term -- you begin combining the retroviruses which are present in our genome -- what we would say naturally -- and God only knows what's REALLY in there because of the reality within which we're dealing -- and those things which we know are NON-resident, not-normally resident, what are we possibly going to release? Can any biologist tell us what the origin of viruses are?

They tell us that they are evolutionary archives; throwbacks from time immemorial in the evolutionary history of life on Earth. "Really?" [Dan asks rhetorically] I was asked about inconsistencies a little while ago about USN vs. USMC. I brought out a consistency having to do with my own birth-date, an inconsistency -- 1960 vs. 1964 -- and I said "Gosh gee willikers, I was awful young then." Well, how young were we when life evolved on this planet? [at this point Dan is as animated as Bruce Willis at his most vehement] Or in fact was seeded? How young were we then? How do we know? We don't. Thus it also causes the resident danger of even the project within which I am currently working.

Dan: It's a subset of the Staarflower Project. I originally... it's named the Lotus. And Staarflower ended up being an umbrella project above it.

Dan: You see it the way that I originally envisioned it which is 'Star', and then you see it the way that 'They' applied it, within the actual classification system which was 'Staar'.

Dan: Well that in fact does. Well, it's a 'beanbox'. We refer to them as 'beanboxes'. I'm in a particular 'beanbox' which is called Aquarius. There's a Staar 'beanbox' and that group specifically deals with time issues, with issues involving the larger milieu of extraterrestrial interactions and with the historical issues involving the imprints of the extraterrestrials on civilization past, and how those imprints affect us today. That's as I understand it, but see that's not my 'beanbox'.

BJ Wolf: I've gotta go back to something that you said before you moved into STAAR...

BJ: I've gotta go back to something you said: You said that "Terrestrial viruses are were an archive". However, previously you had said that they had asked you to "manipulate non-terrestrial source material and lock it up with something that was terrestrial". So if we're trying to tap a source material that is extraterrestrial and viral in nature, are we going back into the extraterrestrial history to try to find an extraterrestrial ancient virus that if we don't know anything about the extraterrestrials now?

Dan: Well first of all, I didn't say that. First of all, I have to correct you. I didn't say that viruses were 'evolutionary archives'. I said that "it is currently thought that viruses are evolutionary archives". Secondly, are we dipping into the primordial soup of the human genome and possibly going to capture other encoded retroviruses and activate them as a result of the present time-dipping of our ladle? [Here Dan is the deadly serious scholar with the forefinger punched into the temple of the ponderer]. Yes, possibly we are.

Thirdly, [here he takes off his glasses, shuts his eyes in a dark grimace, resting his temple against his fingers] do we know for certain WHEN the percentage of the human genome, which we know as is virally and, uh, some other fragments -- Viroid fragments... Do we know the percentage that came via natural selection -- micro-evolutionary change? I'm not going to have myself classified as a "monkey's uncle" [here both Bill and BJ are laughing] although I could accept it if that's the ultimate reality. Why not! If I can accept what I've seen already in my life, I'd have to be able to accept that. Will we be able to discern between the two, I think, is the question.

Dan: The answer is "NO", unless we are receiving more information from the Orion folks (whoever the hell they are, truly -- we, the 'spiritual' ascended beings or whatever. I don't know, I don't have any direct experience with them), or are receiving more information from the J-Rods than to which I'm privy, then the answer is -- if we're not -- the answer is "No, we don't". If we are: "possibly." I don't know what the nature of the information would be that's coming from them because they're not providing me with that information.

BJ: What you get is compartmentalized. Just exactly what they think you need to know [here Dan's body language is saying "Duh! Of course!"]

Dan: Look, if it comes out that we are in the fix that we are in, what is that going to do?? How is it going to help or hinder? Hell, I don't know!!! Would the collective mind of present humanity bring us toward a positive answer? Look at the state of the world! [here BJ is pacing back and forth behind the camera, and Dan follows her with his line of sight]

Dan: What are we going to do? Are we going to hand this to Kofi Annan and the United Nations??! Hah hah!!! And I'm not meaning to belittle the man! He's an intelligent, wonderful man! [here Dan looks and sounds like Bruce Willis at his most earnest] But what in the hell is HE going to do with it?? What the hell... Oh, I don't know! What the hell is the United Nations gonna do with it? What the hell would the collective mind of humanity -- given our present mentality -- DO?!

This may bring us to a faster demise by increasing more fractionation of the human populace!! We haven't even figured out yet that this 'god' [points to the left] and that 'god' [points to the right] and this 'god' [again] and that 'god' [again] ARE ALL PART OF THE SAME GOD!!!! So how in-the-hell are we going to figure out that problem? No matter what you want to call 'Him', 'It', 'Her', whatever... the beautiful thing from which we come!! People want to OWN everything except the solutions. The thing which will free us is if we own the solution, but 'They' want to own the process of getting to it. [aside: "I've been yakking too much."]

Dan: Basically the Clean Sphere would raise up through a diaphragm iris from the floor. They kept him [J-Rod] in a separate location. I don't know what they were doing while he was being staged there before we would come in. They never told me that, OK? However, the '4-5' designation was given specifically to make him comfortable because of the addition of the two numbers...

Dan: ...which is in fact why they built a level 9 base. And there have been a number of people I think in the past... Robert Lazar, I believe, mentioned 9.

But going into... there would be an entry team, usually a team of one -- when we would go into the Clean Sphere -- at a time. We would be given a medical, suited while catheterized, plugged and ensuited, tested out on the prior internal pressurization, a totally encapsulated suit situation - a space suit for lack of a better term...

BJ: When you were ready and you were satisfied with everything, what did you do?

Dan: There was a series of interlocking valves where we would enter off a gantry system. And the two assisting scientists would come up the gantry, for instance, that would be entering the Clean Sphere. We would have to get an OK over the PA system before we were allowed to enter into the pressurization vault outside the Clean Sphere.

It was ritualistically... we would turn around and get the OK from the watchers, the wise men. They would give us the OK from above in the observation pavilion. Following that we would hook to an internal... it was a conduit, if you will. It would go from external to internal with regard to our oxygen pressurization, the nitrogen-oxygen mixture that we breathe. I would be allowed into the little entry bay there. The door would be locked behind me.

Then I would go through a series of protocols to test out my breathing. They would check my heart rate again and then they would, following that, do a micro-pressurization inside the entry bay. A micro-pressurization was for the purpose of testing the continuity of the suit, to make sure that there were no problems. OK? And they had pressure sensors and whatever else the engineers were watching. Following an OK, then there would be a full pressurization. Once the full pressurization would be complete I would rotate my hoses, because this was not a self-contained system whatsoever.

And that was one of the things that disturbed me. It kind of surprised me because when I was told that I would be entering in for the purpose of removing the samples that I was going to be in a space suit, they said. Well I started thinking about the Neil Armstrong and all that business and thought that that would be kind of cool. And I found that I was hooked to hoses. It was more a... I won't say glove box situation, but it was damn close because we were tethered constantly. It was not an internal system, not a backpack if you will, where I carried my own buffers and all that. I would then have to go through a series of protocols once the door would open into the Clean Sphere.

D: I am privy to his prohibited name. However, they requested that I not provide it and that includes not providing it to the people who oversee me. It was private between he and myself because it was considered within their sociological structure improper to have personal names. So I'm not going to tell anyone.

I would enter one step into the Clean Sphere and the door would be closed. I would then rotate -- there was a barrel system -- I would rotate the hoses around. And then I would be asked -- and this was the great charade -- I would be asked to stand and display a hand [hand raised in Indian "how" sign] showing that I am a friendly human being wishing to interact... which I guess was the sign system agreed.

Following that I would step over to a teleprompter which was set up as... fused to the Clean Sphere glass. And this was the great charade. Why I call it the great charade is he and I were communicating all along. Yes, they do communicate via telepathy. I don't know how they do it, precisely. The best thing I can guess is that it's something akin to the sonar in a dolphin. That's the best guess I can give on that. I don't want to get into a biophysics lecture.

But... we would be communicating all along. And I would have to step over to the teleprompter machine and raise my hand again and the picture of a human being would be raised and there would be a series of numbers communicating to him, a number system... meaning that I am a friendly human being wishing to interact. [laughs]

Meanwhile, I'm asking him how he's feeling, and he's telling me that he is well. I am asking him how he was being treated and he was basically giving me a laundry list of complaints. [laughs] While this was going on -- because I'm smiling and he is attempting to (it looks more like a wince because of the current physical state) [inaudible]

And they would be asking me concurrently: "What's going on?" knowing full well that he has the ability to talk in that manner. And I would be saying, "I'm just standing here trying to go through my protocol, sir." Well, they knew damn well. They knew damn well that there was communication going on and they knew damn well that we were "talking."

And after a number of experiences that I had with the, uh... gentleman (I think I can say the word) following that, I would explain to him -- while it was being explained on the board -- I would just say to him what I needed to do with his permission. He would then move usually from his hunched position over at the opposite side of the Clean Sphere into a more standing position, the best that he could do, and I would walk toward him and begin the protocols for the removal of the [inaudible].

Another bay would be accessed for a pressurized removal of the samples that would be removed by a pressurized system. As soon as I had the needle in place in the proper position, I would press a button which would alert the external team that the sample was ready and they in effect would fire the suction unit and that would remove the sample from his thigh.

The sample would then travel through a closed conduit to a separate pressurization area where it would be handled. I had a number of these. I personally conducted over 200 or maybe 300 of these removals. These were extremely fine-gauge needles but they also caused extreme pain and, when he would scream out in pain, I would feel the pain that he would feel.

Dan: Well, on a biological basis they were suffering from a peripheral nervous degeneration. That's what I was asked specifically to look into. If there were other physiological problems -- other system problems -- that wasn't within my team's privy. They were suffering from a peripheral nervous degeneration closely associated with what we could call a monoclonal gammopathy. It's termed as an MGS but I am certain it's significant monoclonal gammopathy. They also had a peripheral nervous degeneration... primary peripheral degeneration... problem, which was associated with a heat loss problem to their peripheral nerves.

I was asked specifically to find out the origin of that problem, having no idea at the time about all this time paradox business and all of that. I had no clue whatsoever about it. So I was basically just trying to help a fellow being. Finally, it was determined that the only way would be a cloning effort -- or clone therapy -- genetic therapy. And that the only way to proceed with that therapy would be to produce hybrid associations between present genomes, human genomes - [inaudible] - the present human genome with their [J-Rod] present genome.

We tinkered a little bit with, uh -- choosing my words wisely again here -- fresh human medium -- and I'm not going to get into the origin of that fresh human medium. Found that we could by associating genetically the fresh human media with his media, a partial alleviation of the peripheral neuropathy. This then led to the next level - that we were chatting about earlier - and it also led to the end of the Q-94 document of reference earlier.

BH: Now can you say for a moment, Dan, what motivates you to now disclose this material to the public?

Dan: Sure. Sure. That's not a problem at all. We speak in America of freedom. In 1986, I was told to "Be All You Can Be." I was not told that there would be a circumventing of the United States Constitution for me to "be all I could be." I was not told that there was a circumventing of the United States Constitution in the group for which I worked. I feel a pressing need for freedom. And having grown up in a reasonably free environment -- having signed myself into the slavery that I now find myself within -- it's pretty easy for me to say, "Enough is enough."

Now, on to the higher values that people would probably want to say the real reason why I want out. That's the personal reason: I want the-hell-out.

Dan: Well, see, why don't they know that I'm seated here today? [a room in the Las Vegas library]. I'm sure they do. I'm sure they do. Now, whether-or-not they want this information evolved and are aware that I am sitting here or that they are just aware that I'm sitting here, I don't know. I don't know.

That's the Big Question: Is it part of what I heard was a project called PATCHWORK, which would be a spoon-feeding of the people of the information? Because I only know a certain amount. I don't know everything. Who's running the show? You ask who's running the show?

Dan: I've come to know a group... I shouldn't say I've come to 'know' the group. I've come to know 'of' the group called the Committee of the Majority. This committee is built of thirty-three men. They are Masonic-based and they are people who set in the highest positions of privilege and power both within the United States government and other governments.

Dan: As I understand, yes. However, it would be difficult for me to start naming names of people that I don't know for sure are seated there. It would also be dangerous to the very cause for which I set here -- for freedom for myself.

Dan: The Majestic 12 is a group of scientists and scientific advisors who work for the Committee of the Majority. Now, I have had occasion when I was involved with Aquarius to have to send to the so-called Majestic 12 the documents to which you are privy, the leaked material from my deceased friends.

And I had association with them on that level. One of the Majestic 12 -- or I should say was alleged to be a member of the Majestic 12 -- was present at the Clean Sphere when I was in the Clean Sphere. I've mentioned his name before. I don't... again, may be risking the cause of my freedom because of the very problems we face now as a society. So, I've got to be careful about that whether or not that sacrifices my freedom.

Dan: His first name is Zbigniew. That's as far as I will go from there. I had personal experience that that man named Zbigniew was in fact present at Sector 4 when I was involved with the J-Rod. Coming out from Project Aquarius, I had come to a closer association by means of up-and-down the line -- the conduit -- with the Committee of the Majority. I believe that the Majestic 12 group is only associated with the particular extraterrestrial projects that are going on within the community and not associated with the entirety of the scientific projects which are going on within the community.

The project we are currently working with, for instance, is not per se an "extraterrestrial" subject-based project. So, the fact that I've been told not to route things to the Majestic Committee of the 12 concerning the documents that I've been producing is kind of indicative to me that they're only dealing within a certain subset of the scientific projects. More than that, I don't know. More than that, I can't say, because I would just be stabbing in the dark.

Dan: Yes, the umbrella group. And again, as I understand, they are Scottish Rite Masonic based. And I think that they may be a little bit lenient on me because my grandfather was a [high ranking] Mason. Maybe that's why the leniency. But I don't see the leniency. I see the fuse running short, starting to run short with me and I... you know, you can hear the clarion call in the distance.

BH: Is there any particular significance... You know, you were mentioning a cycle of 9 years that these aliens seem to be adhering to -- and that the next period coming up would be that of 2003, as I understand it.

Dan: The only thing I know for sure is that their relationship with us is treaty-based.

Dan: ...as in the alleged Orion visitors and confirmed Reticulan visitors. It's a treaty-based relationship. That treaty and negotiations for further cooperative work is due for re-upping; and that re-upping is due in 2003. Now, I've been kind of hurried-up with the project in which I am currently assigned. I've been told to have a working model of this theory presentable by March 15 next year [2003].

There may be more than coincidence having to do with the relationship between those two dates or it may be entirely coincidental. That I'm not sure. Why they are letting this happen? I don't know. I have not been able to move right-or-left without getting watched, that I know.

BH: ...went to meet with you one night, right? And she had an encounter instead with three classic Men-in-Black? Is that right?

BJ: They had the classic look, they had the classic feel. They didn't feel 'right'. They were wearing black, they were wearing like a fedora [hat]. It was terrifying. It was terrifying. Instead of meeting Dan, I was met and I don't know WHAT these people were.

BJ: No expression in their faces. It was terrifying. They spoke and it was like they had rehearsed what they were saying because they couldn't speak 'naturally.' It was 'wrong.' The whole thing was wrong. It felt 'wrong'. They walked 'wrong'. They moved 'wrong'. They were pale. I finally broke and ran. I was scared to death! I haven't been able to go back to that park since. I can't do it.

Dan: My experience is that your description is consistent with gentlemen with whom I've had previous encounters that would come in, observe what was going on. A few of them attempted to interact with me and, frankly, I don't care to interact with them. Like I said before, it might look like a duck and it might quack like a duck, but if it ain't a duck it ain't a duck! [laughter]

Dan: Their presence, period, is threatening. And the reason why it's threatening is because you can... Have you had the experience of being in the presence of a dead body?

Dan: OK. An "animated" dead body, isn't that approximately the same -- an animated dead body?

Dan: It's not -- this is going to sound like something out of an idiotic horror movie -- but it gives, to not overuse the word, it gives an 'alien' feeling. They sang me "Happy Birthday" one year, two of them.

BJ: Yes, it felt ghoulish. When they walked towards me, it felt ghoulish. It felt like they were taking every step... they had to think about each step. They weren't moving normally.

Dan: They seem out-of-place. Or maybe it is that we feel out of place being around them. I don't know. But they seem out-of-place.

BH: Dan, we should begin to wrap this up. Is there anything you would like to make a statement or something as if you were talking to... like the large audience I was talking to up in the Bay area? What would you like to say to the people?

Dan: Aside from the fact that I don't believe the Queen of England is a reptilian?!

BH: Yeah right! [laughter] I mean, is there some kind of statement you would like to make?

Dan: You know, I could sit here and be self-serving with that statement. But there are things which are much more important than my selfish nature. We are walking toward -- at the moment -- a time of human destiny. The decisions that we are making at present are enhancing the potential for the ill-fated decisions that we are supposed to make in our future to occur.

I hope and I pray that we make the right decisions. However, I have no idea what those right decisions are. The only thing that I can hold to personally -- taking off the guise of the biologist -- is being a human being. The only thing I can hope is that whoever 'He' or 'She' or 'It' is -- that we wish to call it 'Creator', that protective force which has surrounded humanity since its inception -- I pray that He is listening to our weeping and pulls us back from a precipice of our own designs.

BH: I appreciate very much your giving this interview tonight and I'm not sure that you will be decorated or promoted for it. But...

BH: But I think we all appreciate it and whoever in the future listens to this and watches this tape, I think they will be given much food for thought.

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Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy

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