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Jim Marrs : The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America
Laughlin, Nevada, February 2009


Jim Marrs (JM):  ...and it was on the way to the printer, and then somebody somewhere just said: No. And it stopped.

Bill Ryan (BR):  I have a piece of off-record information for you, Jim, which we can go into backchannel if you want to.

JM:  Okay.

BR:  I have it in writing from Kit Green -- that the remote viewing program was never closed down, and went underground...

JM:  Yeah.

BR:  ...with the use of drugs, hypnosis and electronics. I have this in writing. But maybe this is old news.

Kerry Cassidy (KC):  That’s old news to Jim...!

JM:  What’s wild though is, I’ll tell you, here’s my take: if you go ask somebody in government: Do you have a remote viewing unit? They’re going to say: No. And, technically, I think they’re telling the truth. Because when you say it went underground, what they did was they just spread it all out. Now, all these various organizations, such as Navy SEALS, Army Rangers and the DEA and all like that, they all have the remote viewers.

BR:  Mm hm.

KC:  That’s right.

JM:  But it’s not... they’re not... They don’t have a set, you know, official program of remote viewers, they just blended them all in with everybody else.

Start of interview

KC:  This is Project Camelot -- Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan -- and we’re here with Jim Marrs. He’s a very well known writer; very strong investigator. He’s written several very well known books, very successful books: Crossfire and Rule by Secrecy and Alien Agenda and The Rise of the Fourth Reich.

And we’re actually here to talk to Jim about The Rise of the Fourth Reich. [speaking directly to Jim] We’re going to kind of concentrate on that area, but we want to go all over the map, because I know that the secrets of remote viewing is something you’re very, very familiar with, and...

You’ve just covered the whole gamut -- it’s really amazing -- and you do so in a very coherent way. It’s very understandable. I think that no one can read one of your books and go: Well that’s the most outlandish thing I ever heard, it’s not true. I think that basically you back up everything you’ve got to say. You were a journalist originally, is that right?

JM:  Still am. [laughs]

KC:  Okay. Still working, a working journalist...

JM:  Right.

KC:  ...on top of your books, and...

JM:  Unfortunately there’s no real journals around anymore; [laughs] only corporate advertising delivery systems.

KC:  Right, absolutely. And, basically, you’re considered something of an expert on the Kennedy assassination as well, aren’t you?

JM:  Well, that’s where I cut my teeth, as a working newspaperman in the Dallas, Fort Worth area, going all the way back to the ‘60s.

KC:  Amazing. So, you’re also doing the circuit, you’re talking at various conferences, and we’re here today at Laughlin -- where the UFO Congress is being held -- and you’ve just given a wonderful speech.

So, what we want to do is talk about where America is going from your point of view, get some of the background -- the background, the Nazis and so on -- and what you’ve been talking about in your newest book. And also, then, sort of circle back around and talk a little bit about UFOs, the secrecy, and what might be seen in the future.

BR:  I have a question of my own which I could add there as an adjunct, which is: why would somebody be talking about The Rise of the Fourth Reich at a UFO conference? How’s that for a question?

JM:  [laughs]

KC:  Well, okay, and I have to say that we’re in some interesting times right now, that are actually bringing forth this questioning that I think is... not even just UFO nuts, but political aficionados, the man on the street; everyone’s questioning their reality right now, I think...

JM:  I think...

KC:  ...and why what’s happening in America is going on.

JM:  I think you’re absolutely correct. Because of the crumbling economy, and because so many people are now waking up and realize that no matter whether they vote for a democrat or republican they seem to get the same socialist programs, they are now beginning to realize that there is a whole different paradigm than what is portrayed in the corporate mass media.

And so, the question is, why am I talking about The Fourth Reich at a UFO Congress? And I think the answer is because people who disregard the subject of UFOs and who just write that off as just total fantasy and lunacy; they will never, ever, be able to figure out what’s truly happening in the world because they’re tossing out a big piece of the puzzle. It’s all part of the same big mosaic and you have to put all these pieces together to figure out what’s going on.

Just as a “for instance”: I truly believe that one of the main reasons for our precipitous invasion of Iraq was to make a beeline for Baghdad, and use a mob scene as a cover, for a very concerted effort to loot the Iraqi National Museum. What were they after? They were after newly discovered artifacts, tablets, scrolls and such that were being found in the ancient Sumerian cities of Uruk and some of these other places by French and German archaeological teams -- interestingly enough, the two countries who were most opposed to our entry into Iraq.

And what was taken? Very possibly knowledge of ancient energy manipulation technology. And this gets into anti-gravity and a bunch of weird and exotic technologies that conventional science would laugh at. But then, when you really study the issue, you find that these technologies have been worked on since at least World War II and have been kept under very ultra-secret classification programs ever since, because this is our leading edge technology.

So, you can see how it all ties together; Ancient history, UFOs, secret societies, the world government. It’s all part of the same big ball of wax, and unless you back off and take that broad overview and study a wide variety of topics, you’re never going to figure out what’s going on.

BR:  This is something that Bill Cooper said, I remember, in one of his very famous lectures that he gave in ’89 or ’90 -- you may well remember it yourself -- he said: If you don’t factor UFOs into this jigsaw puzzle, you’ll never understand what modern geopolitical events are all about.

KC:  Aren’t we also talking about star gates and, you know, because when you get into free energy, you get into -- from what I understand -- vortexes, and you get into the possibility there is a star gate in Iraq as well that they might be covering up. And then you get into the Anunnaki, and... so you’re into aliens or ETs, whatever you want to call them. Have you gone down that road at all?

JM:  Well, sure. When you follow the evidence, that’s where it takes you back to. And we mentioned the possibility of a star gate or some sort of dimensional portal in Iraq, you know, that takes me back to the Bible and the story of King Nebuchadnezzar. He built this structure out of gold, which they translate as a fiery furnace, but obviously it was something else because people went in and out of it.

Of course, when his people when in, they tended to keel over and die, which tells me it was some sort of an energy field. Then he got the three Hebrew priests and told them to make it work, and put them in there. And, lo and behold, eventually there was four people in there. So three went in and four [laughs] came out, so obviously they were opening some sort of a portal, or a gateway.

KC:  Wow. That’s very interesting. So, where do you want to take us with this? Because I know that there’s a whole movement in your speech, where you’re talking about manna from heaven, the monochromatic gold, monotonomic... how do you say it?

JM:  The... [laughs] It’s the single-atom gold, monatomic... monatomic gold.

KC:  Okay.

JM:  Orbitally rearranged monatomic gold. Single-atom elements. These, by the way, this is nothing that’s just outrageous and unheard-of because monatomic gold, silver, heavy metals -- they’re in everything. They’re in water, they’re in food, we ingest them. This is just something else -- another layer of our 3-D material existence -- that we had not been aware of prior to the ‘70s and ‘80s. But then, that’s nothing new. You go back a hundred years, they weren’t aware of atoms. So, you know, we’re learning.

I think the thing is, and the reason we need to look into this exotic stuff and the question of ETs is because I think that we are in a conditioning process right now, that yes, there may be life in outer space, and this presents a danger. Because I know and I have seen the government documents. There are plans. Contingency plans and government files that, at some point, when they can’t make the international enemy list work, is they...

You know, at one point back in the early twentieth century, it was the international Jewish conspiracy. Well, that fell apart. Then there was the international Communist conspiracy, and then that fell apart. Now it’s the international terrorist conspiracy. And yet, if you stop and think about it, how’re we supposed to believe that’s real when they will not do anything to secure the borders of the United States? So that’s a sham too, and when that begins to fall apart, then -- according to authoritarian sources -- the next thing is going to be a threat from outer space just like Ronald Reagan warned us about in his speech to the United Nations.

So, if you don’t want to be panicked and stampeded by this phony threat from space, then you’ll study the UFO issue and you’ll find out the truth about the issue. And then when they say: Oh, no, there really are aliens and they’re coming to eat you and you have to give up all the rest of your liberties so we can protect you, you can say: Nah, I don’t think so.

KC:  Right, absolutely.  So, through remote viewing... You became a remote viewer yourself, is that right?

JM:  I have... In my study of remote viewing, I did participate in some remote viewing studies and in some testing and, interesting enough, I tested pretty well [laughs].

KC:  I’m not surprised, because you’ve got a great sort of objectivity about the way you look at different topics, and from what I understand -- I studied remote viewing a little myself -- and I understand that it really takes sort of an impartial look at what’s in, you know, on the other side, so to speak.

JM:  I was kind of surprised to find out that I tested so well in remote viewing. But then as I thought about it, it really wasn’t that surprising because as a journalist and a newspaperman I had long-since learned to somewhat trust my intuition...

KC:  You have to.

JM:  ... and my intuition rarely let me down. And that’s, of course, that’s getting to the soft psychic signal that’s at the heart of the remote viewing experience.

KC:  Absolutely. So, where are you with that? As far as using that in what you’re kind of... you’re going down this road, you’re investigating the Nazi connection behind our government and what’s going on now in America, and... So how does the remote viewing help you in that journey?

JM:  Well, it’s [laughs] actually not much at all, which is surprising and probably pretty stupid. But it’s like, you know, I know I should exercise a whole lot more than I do but I just don’t because I’m too busy doing other things, and it’s the same thing with remote viewing. I really probably should sit down, at least once a day, and try to keep my remote viewing skills up to razor edge but I don’t, [laughs] because...

KC:  But you are using your intuition, right?

JM:  Right.

KC:  In your investigations...

JM:  It’s helped me learn to even give more trust to my intuition.

KC:  Right. So, where are we going as a country right now, and why?

JM:  The United States has always been -- at least been attempted to be -- dominated by a wealthy elite, and that goes all the way back. Alexander Hamilton and his rich friends, they wanted to run the country, because they felt like that the rich people knew how to handle things and somehow had better sense than everybody else. So, that’s nothing new, and as a result the United States has always had a somewhat conservative bend to it. And that’s ok too, because ‘specially when you have a great country with... full of resources and everybody’s prospering and, you know, you want to... let’s conserve everything we have.

So there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But, unfortunately, with the influx of National Socialists -- which in the German language the acronym of which is NAZI -- with the influx of Nazis after World War II, being aided and abetted and funded by Wall Street financiers and people who consider themselves globalists, they have no particular interest in the United States, per se; they want to try to run the world.

First into the military industrial complex, and then into the defense industries, and then into academia, and then into other professions, this National Socialism has been worming its way into the United States since after World War II. And it really came to fore when George Herbert Walker Bush became President -- whose grandfather was actually prosecuted by the Federal Government of the United States in late 1942 for being a financial front man for Hitler and the Nazis -- and then his son, George W.

And during the eight years of the George W. administration we saw the rise and the dominance of Neo-Cons, or Neo-Conservatives, which is nothing less than just another name for National Socialism. So we saw this whole country tend towards the right; towards fascism. And because fascism is defined as the blending of state and corporate power, I don’t think there’s anyone who can argue that that’s not the case in the United States today.

The big difference is, in Nazi Germany, the state gained control over the corporations, and it was that combination that created that fascist state; and in modern America we have the corporations gaining control over the state through lobbyists and through pacts and through the groups that... they now control the government. But the end result’s the same, a blending of corporate and state power, which is fascism.

Now after eight years of this fascism, people were beginning to chafe. Even the people who thought they really wanted to support George W. Bush because he said all the right things began to realize that all he was doing was pushing socialist programs and waging unprovoked wars of aggression. So there was a backlash, and now we have shifted from National Socialism to Marxist Socialism, under Barack Obama.

But nothing really has changed, because in the Bush W. administration all the top important people were members of the secretive Council on Foreign Relations, which has dominated U.S. foreign policy since before World War II and was created for the express purpose of bringing in a world government. And under the Barack Obama administration we find that all of his top cabinet members, they’re all members of the Council on Foreign Relations. So the very same secretive, wealthy elite is still running this country, only now under the guise of Marxist Socialism.

And after four years of Marxist Socialism and the attendant collapse, probably, of the U.S. economy, then we’re going to be all set up to really go for a new dictator -- a new Führer -- as people, in their panic over the economy and over the social programs, they will swing back and vote for some dictator. This is the same methodology that was used in pre-war Germany; by the same people.

KC:  Ok. Well, enter free energy into that scenario and what do you get? Because we do see the destruction of the American economy; we see the World economy going down, as a matter of fact. But where does free energy kind of fit into this puzzle, if you will, and certainly it’s in Black Projects, as we know and we’ve documented in various videos with various people.

I know you’re involved in working with Gordon Novel and the RAM Project, on some level, although I’m not sure how. So maybe you could..? So that puts you in a really interesting position to view how free energy is coming into this puzzle.

JM:  Right. Well, there are several question marks in the whole equation, and free energy is obviously one of them. If we could break the stranglehold of the monopoly of petrochemicals and come up with some sort of a free energy, the whole equation would change. And this is what’s going on right now. There are some very, very intense, interdicting and covert conflicts going on over which technology that we want to go to; who’s going to control it.

For example, we hear talk of fuel cells for vehicles. The reason we don’t have it yet is because they haven’t figured out yet how to get a monopoly over it. So this, again, is going to depend on how the future paradigm begins to shape up. I would like to see some sort of economy set up that’s not monopoly based; that everyone has a little bit of everything.

In fact, to give you an example: to me, the biggest example -- and proof -- of conspiracy in the world today is the fact that even while people are sitting here watching this interview, in the back of their mind they realize that somewhere there are literally thousands -- if not millions -- of children starving to death. Now, is it because the Earth cannot produce enough food to feed those children? No, of course not. We have the technology that we could feed and clothe and house and give reasonable, minimal health care to every single person on this planet.

KC:  Mm hm.

JM:  So, why don’t we? Well, once you get past the facile explanations such as: Oh, it’s politics, and it’s transportation, and the cost is great, and you know... get past that. It’s that way because somewhere somebody wants it that way. If nobody wanted it that way, it wouldn’t be that way. There’s more of us than there are of these New World Order people. We simply need to get all the people of good conscience and good heart together and say: We don’t want it that way.

KC:  Absolutely. Well, okay. But there is a ruling elite, right?

JM:  Right.

KC:  And you’ve delved into that, I’m sure, in…

JM:  Right, and I’ve detailed them and tracked their history.

KC:  Okay, so you’re talking about -- just for the of the video -- Bilderbergers, Council on Foreign Relations, certainly Majestic 12, and I know you’re...

JM:  Trilateral Commission...

KC:’re something of an expert on them, right?

JM:  Mm hm.

KC:  So, all of these organizations are rolling out an agenda right now, and the question is: how soon is what they’re going to accom... are they going to be done accomplishing this, you know, Fourth Reich, if you call it, in your opinion? Is this something... are we already there?

JM:  We’re very, very close to a Fourth Reich, because “reich” in German simply means “empire”, and the United States today, of course, is the preeminent empire on the planet. It’s going to be up to us, the members of the empire -- citizens of the empire -- whether we act as an empire and become the imperial empire, in which case we’re probably going to take a fall just like the Roman Empire, just like the Third Reich and everybody else. Or, do we try to bring peace, prosperity to everybody instead of trying to lord it over and hog the resources of the planet. And it’s basically just kind of a consciousness shift, is what it is. 

A good illustration is in my home state of Texas. When I was a kid the highways were just terrible. They were littered because people just, you know, you got through with your drink, you just threw it out the window. And it wasn’t that we thought we were littering and were trying to do bad, we just didn’t know any better. We just said: Ah well, I’m through with that and it’s out the window.

But they instituted a Don’t Mess with Texas program; signs everywhere, and they raised the consciousness. And people began to realize: Wait, it’s not really right to throw all your trash out on the highway. And I’m not going to try and say that highways in Texas today are spotless, but they are 150 percent better than what they used to be, and not because of any of the littering laws -- although they’re on the books, but I don’t know of anybody that’s ever gotten a ticket for littering -- but the consciousness raising; and we could do the same thing with the people of the United States.

The people of the United States are good people. We give more to charity than all the other nations of the world combined. And if we simply understood the truth of the situation and we’re not being pushed from pillar to post by the corporate-controlled mass media, then I think we could probably figure out ways to handle the situation, and to spread the wealth, to where everyone could have a little piece of the American Dream.

KC:  Well, wouldn’t you say, though, that there’s some kind of plan afoot to take down the American government altogether? I mean, that’s actually what’s being fought behind the scenes?

JM:  That’s absolutely true and that’s what’s going on. Because the United States has been the biggest stumbling block to these globalists who want to see a one world government, one world socialist system. The reason for that is because in the United States we have a tradition and history of individual freedom. And we have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which gives us a legal basis for our individual freedom and liberty. And three, we have guns and we can see to ourselves that we have individual freedom and liberty.

But right now there are... there’s a movement afoot under the new Obama administration to register firearms, to register ammunition, and to basically try to disarm the population. And if that ever comes to fruition, then we’re just going to become serfs in a new Middle Age of feudalism.

KC:  Well, what about China, you know, because there’s talk that China may be set to invade at some point in the future; that we may be having war with China. Have you heard anything to that effect?

JM:  Well, you know, some Chinese generals are even on the public record saying war with the United States is inevitable. I don’t know why. Right now we’re totally dependent on each other. We’re dependent on China to produce just about everything that we use. You know, go into any store and pick up a product and look on the bottom and it’ll say Made in China.

KC:  Right.

JM:  Okay, but then, likewise, they’re dependent upon us because if we’re not there to buy all this junk from them [laughs] they don’t have a market. So, I think that some of this belligerence is concocted. Because actually...

KC:  Absolutely.

JM:  If you want to know what the... Here’s the real game plan, okay?

KC:  Okay.

JM:  This was articulated back in 1948 by a man named Eric Arthur Blair, who was a British Fabian Socialist and very well connected to the royals and to the aristocracy there in England. And I think he actually had a pretty good view on what the overall game plan was, so he wrote it all down in a book under the pen name George Orwell.

KC:  [laughs] Okay.

JM:  And, of course, that was 1984.

KC:  Right.

JM:  And in there, if you’ll go back and re-read 1984, you’ll find that they had divided the world into three economic blocks. In 1984 they called it Oceania, Asiana and East Asiana. In today’s real world it’s the European Union, the soon to be North American Union and the future Asian Union. And then what they did is they play two of those blocks off against each other perpetually to create the tension necessary for arms races, and for defense spending, and lots of loans going through; that generates profit and control over the population.

KC:  Right.

JM:  That’s the game plan.

KC:  Okay, well that’s a great overview of what’s in operation right now. Do you believe that there’s also... ah, you know, the Georgia Guidestones; basically what they say, which is elimination of the population is one of their objectives?

JM:  Right. Whoever build the Georgia Guidestones, again I think, was privy to this New World Order agenda. And this is where I do depart from their thinking. I have an interview with General Maxwell Taylor that was done in the early ‘70s and he -- being not only our last ambassador to Vietnam but also a ranking member of the Council on Foreign Relations -- I think he was fully articulating their thinking.

He said, basically, that by the beginning of the next century -- well that’s now -- he said we have to eliminate about a third of the world’s population because, he said, the basic overall problem is overpopulation. And that lays at the heart of all the other problems; pollution and economy and everything. And he said this will be done by limited regional conflicts like Iraq, [laughs] Afghanistan...

KC:  Uh-huh.

JM:  ...disease -- AIDS in Africa -- and starvation, which is prevalent in many of the Third World nations. And he said: I’m not sure we can save these people, and I’m not even sure we should try. And so, that is their thinking to decrease the world’s population.

Now, here’s the fallacy in their thinking: there really is no overpopulation problem. I heard this stated some years ago -- I didn’t quite believe it, so I checked -- but it’s absolutely true. The entire 6.5 billion human population could actually live comfortably enough in the state of Texas.

KC:  [laughs] Really?

JM:  Really. So, it’s not a overpopulation problem, it’s a population concentration problem. You have most of the world is jammed into these huge metropolitan areas, big mega-cities, okay?

KC:  Right.

JM:  There are other ways of doing things, okay? I could picture a world where you and Bill could live out in a beautiful countryside, a rural setting, okay? Got your little lake there, and you’ve got an orchard, and you’ve got a garden, and you’re just doing great. And when it’s time to go shopping, then you get on your bicycle or your little electric cart and you go down to the little station and you hop a high-speed electric line -- zoom! -- that would take you to a shopping centre area, like a huge mall. And you go through there and you do your shopping, okay, and then you zoom back home and get on your bicycle, pedal back to your little place.

And you have your own little energy collector generator, alright? You’re self-sufficient energy-wise. And you say: Yeah, but what do I do for work? Well it would be whatever you wanted to do.

We’re in an awkward situation now because we’ve all been brought up on this Christian work ethic that says everybody’s got to work. Okay? Well that’s a product of older times when truly everybody had to work just to survive. In fact, that’s why you had to have lots of kids, because you had to have somebody work the fields, so you could produce produce, so you’d have food to eat. But today with technology, you know, just a few mega-farms can raise enough food for everybody. The technology’s there. We could all be living like kings if we demanded it, and if we wanted it, and if we could convince these would-be rulers of the world that we all deserve to have a fair shake at life.

KC:  Absolutely.

BR:  I have a nice little anecdote that you might be able to use in some of your lectures. In the Marquesas Islands in the South Pacific -- it’s a French colony which no one’s ever heard of. In their language, they have no word for work. And it’s a really wonderful concept...

JM:  Right.

BR:  ...because, of course, we think the way we talk, it’s not the other way round. And so, they don’t work. They catch a fish, they build a house and they light a fire, then they cook a meal and they dance and they do this, and they just live. And this whole work/play dialectic has actually been so deeply ingrained into us in this Western society...

JM:  Right...

BR:  ...that we’re victims of this idea; that we’re prisoners...

JM:  Right.

BR:  ... because we’ve got to work all the time, and then we’ve got to play, and then they’ve got us by the throat...

JM:  That’s right.

BR ...because we all try to get out of this loop.

JM:  And if you have a son or daughter and all they want to do is play the guitar and write music, then they must be some kind of bum -- [Kerry laughs] -- because they’re not working!

KC:  Right.

JM:  Now, there was a great story, there was a great story about the retired American businessman who goes down to Mexico, and he rents a little fishing boat and he goes out fishing. And he gets to talking with Manuel, the guy that owns the boat, and he says: Manuel, you know, he says: what’s your life like? What do you do?

He says: Oh, I get up in the morning, and he says: and I come out and do some fishing, then I go home and take a siesta in the afternoon with my wife, and at night I go into town and sit with my friends and eat and drink and play the guitar and we sing.

He says: Well, Manuel, he said: Don’t you understand, if you don’t take a siesta, if you’d fish more during the day you’d make more money and with that more money you could buy another boat. And with two boats then, you know, you’d get more fish and pretty soon you could buy more boats. And the next thing you know you’ll have a fleet of boats. And then what you do, is you come to the United States and then you can incorporate, and then you can sell stock, and then you can have a whole fleet of boats and you can make, you know... and pretty soon you could become a millionaire.

And he says: how long would that take? He says: Ah, twenty, thirty years.
He said: And then what’d I do?  He says: Well, then you could retire and come to Mexico, and fish in the morning and take a siesta in the afternoon, and visit your friends at night...

And it’s like: Oh, wait a minute! [laughs]

KC:  [laughs]

JM:  He’s already doing that...

KC:  Yeah... I see.

JM:  So, it’s all in the mind. It’s all in the consciousness and how we perceive things and whether or not you think you have to be in the rat race, and whether or not you think you have to have more toys than everybody else so you can prove that you’re a success. The most successful people I know are not necessarily the richest people I know.

KC:  Oh, yeah, definitely! Well, I mean, that’s a very good point. Also, the idea is,  behind free energy, if you want to call it that, that the energy sources could make that possible for everyone.

JM:  Well, we’ve had this for a long, long, long time. Nikola Tesla was trying to tell us how we could tap the basic energy of the earth and everyone could just have their own energy. Of course, he got shut down by Edison and by the people who wanted to put in the electrical systems and make sure that you buy energy. And today, see, they’ve got a lock on it because, you know, you could be Bill Gates, you could be the richest guy in the whole world, but he still pays an electric bill each month.

KC: Mm hm.

JM:  It all comes back to perception and consciousness. Years ago, I got really big on solar energy, you know, and I said: Well, you know, gee, either the sun shines or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, we’re all out of luck, and if it’s shining, then why don’t we capture the sun’s radiant energy and use that for energy.

So I was talking with an energy expert and he very patiently and condescendingly explained to me that: Well, you don’t understand. He said: It would take solar panels covering an area the size of the state of Arizona to provide enough power to power the city of Los Angeles.

And I thought: Oh, okay. And I checked him out, and that’s probably true. Where’s the flaw in his thinking? Central generation. He can only think in terms of central generation...

KC:  Sure...

JM:  ...generating that juice and piping it to L.A. What if everybody in L.A. put a solar panel on their roof?

KC:  And sun is so plentiful there that, you know...

JM:  There you go!

KC:  ...they could gather enough energy...

JM:  That’s right.

KC: a matter of days, really.

JM:  Exactly. And why don’t they do that? Because, the electric company...

KC:  No one would make money.

JM:  The electric company hasn’t figured out how to make a cloud come hang over your house if you don’t pay your electric bill[Kerry laughs]Okay? So, it’s all about power and control, it’s not about technology.

KC:  So, yeah, absolutely, and this is the paradigm that humans are operating under at the moment.

JM:  Right.

KC:  So, where is the United States headed in your estimation? Because in some places right now we have Native American tribes that are trying to secede from the Union, in essence, create their own currency...

JM:  We got 21 states now that have sovereignty bills pending; they’re trying to cut loose. It’s going to get real interesting. Basically, they have to destroy the United States, okay? And what they’re trying to do is wreck the economy, panic the people, and get everybody to accept the North American Union. And to do this...

The way they’ll do this is by saying the only way out of this economic mess is to combine the economies of Mexico, Canada, and the United States. And, of course, we’ve all heard talk of the Amero, which I have conflicting information, and of course you see pictures on the internet, and they say: Oh, here it is, and it’s here now, and yet, that’s apparently not the case. That’s just some coins people have struck as kind of a gimmick or a trinket. But I also have heard from people that I feel like know what they’re talking about, that the Amero money is already printed and waiting; awaiting distribution.

This is very reminiscent of some years ago. I heard... there was internet rumors running around about this Red Money. Money that was going to be pinkish in color and have red ink and dyes in it, you know, like that. And the government denied that, and they said: No, that’s not right, that’s not true. And yet, now it is, you know, we do have this, the new money and it is reddish and pinkish and all like that. So, you know...

KC:  But states are not going to fall for this, it doesn’t sound like. And even...

JM:  They are balking. They're balking and they’re bucking in the traces, and that’s good. The thing is, this is the salvation, okay? We are not going to change the federal structure of the United States; it’s too entrenched, it’s too bureaucratic, too many people are feeding at the trough, and they’re not just going to voluntarily get up and go away.

KC:  Right.

JM:  And obviously, even by voting you’re not going to get anything changed much. In 2004, they voted in a democratic Congress trying to curb the excesses of the Bush administration, and what changed? Nothing! We’re still in Iraq fighting, we’re still in Afghanistan fighting...

KC:  Right, and we’re bailing people out -- or companies out, not people...

JM:  Exactly.

KC: much greater sums than ever thought of.

JM:  And, the Bush administration, which was hailed as the epitome of good conservatism, is the one that nationalized the banking business, you know. [laughs] Socialism, right down the line.

KC:  Well, isn’t the bottom line that the two party system was just a fallacy anyway, because...

JM:  It’s pretty much always been a joke...

KC:’s always...

JM:  ... but it’s definitely a joke now. Particularly, I guess it’s summed up in the election of 2006. You could vote for Democrat John Kerry, who was from an oil family and a member of the secretive Skull and Bones Society; or you could vote for his cousin George W. Bush, from an oil family and a member of the Skull and Bones Society. There’s no choice.

KC:  Yeah.

JM:  There’s no difference, and anybody who still pays attention to Democrat and Republican, they’re just getting snookered.

KC:  Okay, so to get back to this situation. So you have... you’ve got these families that are running everything. You’ve got an agenda to take down the United States, but the United States is not going to go. I mean, you know, people are... they’re actually incredible citizens; they actually want to save the country...

JM:  Right.

KC:  They’re patriots, if you will...

JM:  Right.

KC:  So...

JM:  The problem is they’re all divided, okay?

KC:  Okay.

JM:  And like, I’ve traveled around the country, and I’ve found pockets of people everywhere who understand what’s going on, who care about what’s going on, who want to do something about it. But they all feel like, that they’re in the minority and that they’re all alone because these people control the mass media.

KC:  Mm hm.

JM:  And this is why, by the way, that you’ve... When is the last time you heard a national politician refer to the Republic? They don’t even talk about the Republic anymore...

KC:  No.

JM:  ... because we’re not a republic anymore; we’re just the Empire. And all they talk about is democracy, democracy. We have to protect democracy; we got to spread democracy. Well what’s democracy? It’s ruled by the majority; so, in other words, the epitome of democracy in action is a lynch mob.

KC:  Mm hm.

JM:  Well, that’s not what we were given. We were not given a democracy; we don’t want a pure democracy. We want a democratic republic; and what’s the difference? Because in the democratic republic, if you’re charged with a capital crime then you have to... you get to face your accusers, you get to have legal representation, you get to go into a court/legal system, and you get to cross-examine the evidence against you; you get to have a fair trial. And then if you’re found guilty and you have a chance for an appeal, and it’s turned down, then they can lynch you.

KC:  [laughs]

JM:  Okay?

KC:  Right...

JM:  That’s the way it’s supposed to work. But we are no longer a rule of... a nation ruled by law.

KC:  Right. The corporations basically rule...

JM:  Corporations tell us what to do. And again, it’s that takeover-of-the-state mechanism by corporations; it’s the very dictionary definition of fascism.

KC:  So let’s get back into what happened during the time of Paperclip, and during the time of the Atomic Bomb, and maybe you could talk a little bit about what really went on back then because I think a lot of people need to get their history, you know, straightened out in their heads.

JM:  They really do, because in our conventional history, it’s like: Well, there was the Russian Revolution, and then out of that grew Communism, and then they... we had a Cold War with them versus Capitalism and yadda-yadda-yadda...

The truth of the matter is, is that the very same people in Wall Street and the city of London -- these Internationalists, these global financiers -- they created Communism in Russia. When the Russian Revolution broke out Lenin was in Switzerland. Trotsky was in New York living on Rockefeller property, okay? They sent them into Russia to capture the Revolution for the Bolsheviks and turn Russia into a communist state, which they did. And the idea was, I think, to build up a communist East versus a capitalist West, and they were going to perpetuate the Cold War many years before we actually saw it actually come into being.

But the problem was, it threatened to get out of hand. There were strong Communist parties in France, England, Italy, Germany -- even the United States. And so they... we talk about this One World Government, but they really don’t want a true One World Government, because then they can’t play one nation off against another, or one economic block off against another. So this made them fearful, and they decided they had to stop the spread of Communism.

The one country that was in a position geographically and economically to act as a block against the spread of Communism was Germany. So they went in and found a German army intelligence agent, and they put him in charge of a little political party called the German Worker’s Party which he quickly changed the name to the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (NSDAP) -- the acronym of which is NAZI -- and, of course, that was Adolf Hitler. And Hitler provided this block against the spread of Communism. Then they perpetrated this whole idea of the Nazis were bitter enemies of the Communists, okay?

KC:  And meanwhile, they’re being financed by Bush...

JM:  And run by the same people...

KC:  ...Prescott Bush, behind the scenes...

JM:  Exactly, yeah, and the Rockefellers...

KC:  ...and I -- what is it -- Farben?

JM:  IG Farben.

KC:  IG Farben.

JM:  And the head of IG Farben was Hermann Schmitz, and Hermann Schmitz owned as much Standard Oil stock as John D. Rockefeller did. It was all the same International globalists, if you will. Now the problem was, is that Hitler got too strong and the Germans were a little too efficient, and they over-ran Europe. They were moving into North Africa, they were pushing into Russia, taking over Norway, and were threatening Britain.

Now all of a sudden it looked like they were going to have a One World National Socialist system. And oh, they didn’t want that either! But mostly they didn’t want Germany in charge of the world economic order because this had been the purview of the city of London -- those bankers with the Bank of England -- and their Wall Street compadres, okay?

So, at some point, even though they had created Hitler, put him into power, financed his rise; they turned against him, and that’s when we had World War II. They managed to stop Germany, push it back. And yes, we defeated Germany in World War II, but we didn’t defeat the Nazis. The Nazis were still much in power, and they cut deals. They swapped their exotic technology, their rocket technology, their energy manipulation technology, their mind control technology, chemical technology and pharmaceutical technology to the United States in exchange for immunity.

We brought them in over the war and in the late ‘40s and early ‘50s, John J. McCloy -- who had been head of National City Bank which was one of the largest lenders of money to pre-World War II Nazi Germany -- was made High Commissioner of Germany. He pardoned thousands of unreconstructed Nazis; brought them over to the United States.

His protégé was Allen Dulles, who then was head of the CIA for many years. And under Dulles, he whitewashed their backgrounds, and put them all -- these Nazis -- into our military industrial complex. And that began the National Socialist infiltration of the United States system.

KC:  Wow, that’s an excellent summation of really what happened behind the scenes. And this is what most people don’t know...

JM:  No, you’re never taught this in school.

KC:  ...about American history...

JM:  Right...

KC:  ...and even the history of the world. So you also could talk about what the Nazis had by virtue of their occult investigations, and possibly even channeling, and how they got what is, in essence, free energy -- maybe even star gate technology, certainly UFOs.

JM:  Exotic technology.

KC:  Yeah.

JM:  Yeah, and the question’s always been: How did the Nazis get so far ahead of us in science?

KC:  Exactly.

JM:  They were broadcasting the 1936 Berlin Olympics over television. In fact, by the end of the war, they had television-guided missiles. Holy cow! We didn’t know that... and there’s good reason to believe they actually possessed and had tested a nuclear weapon. But by the time... they did not have a reliable delivery system, and by the time they were ready to maybe unleash a nuclear weapon, it was spring of 1945 and the Russians were closing in from the east and Allies from the west, and it was almost all over. And if they had set off an atomic bomb somewhere it would not have ended the war, it would’ve simply meant the total devastation and destruction of Germany.

Now, where did they get all this? For years I’d heard stories that: Well, they captured a flying saucer somewhere and they back-engineered it. But yet, every time you try to track those stories, it never went anywhere. And I am now of the opinion, based on information that I have now, and based on documentation that has come out of the old Soviet Union now with the collapse of Communism, that the Germans had their own remote viewers.

BR:  Mm hm.

JM:  Of course, they didn’t call it remote viewing, because that was a term that was coined back when the CIA and the National Security Agency in this country was studying and working with psychic warfare. But they had the same type thing. Back then the Germans had been very much involved in the occult, if you want to call it that, all the way back in... prior to the 1920s. And they would have séances, and they would have all of these channelings, or whatever you want to call it, but at the bottom line of it is what we call remote viewing. It was the use of these psychic abilities.

BR:  This was the Vril Society, wasn’t it?

JM:  The Vril Society. And this was largely based on the philosophies of Madame Blatavsky and her Theosophical Society. They were heavy into that. And, of course, Hitler was put into power with the help of the Thule-Gesellschaft, or the Thule Society, which was an occult society made up of some of the wealthiest aristocrats there in Germany, and industrialists. They were big into this stuff, into spiritualism, I think, is what they called it back then.

And so they... according to the information I have there was even a unit within the German military called Doctor Greenbaum, and this was basically their remote viewers. And, interestingly enough, this was under a broader umbrella program called Majik [he spells] M-A-J-I-K.

And that’s really interesting because, as you well know, the Majestic 12 -- or Majik 12 -- that’s always talked about in the UFO literature being the people at the top who are in charge of the secrecy over UFO technology was M-A-J-I-C 12 to begin with; which is the anglicized version of M-A-J-I-K -- the German version. And I’m wondering if perhaps, when we brought their mind control experts and their pharmaceutical experts and their rocket scientists all over here after the war, if we didn’t bring some of their psychic scientists, too.

KC:  Okay, that makes sense. Well, what about Vannover Bush? He was head of Majestic 12 that was set up by the Truman... supposedly set up by the Truman administration, right?

JM:  Mm hm. It was.

KC:  To handle the problem of UFOs and what it meant to America, but...

JM:  Right.

KC:  ...that’s a very interesting trail to follow if they already were in operation in Germany.

JM:  Right, exactly. And you have to understand that that really was the genesis of the modern National Security state -- the National Security Act of 1947, which began to be put together just a few days after something fell from the skies at Roswell, New Mexico in July of 1947. And, by August, they're cobbling together quickly this National Security Act, and in September they actually held President Truman -- delayed him on the tarmac there at National Airport when he was trying to get home to visit his dying mother -- so they could rush on board and get him to sign this National Security Act of 1947.

Why the rush? Well, because they had to get control over all of this information. What the National Security Act of 1947 did was create the CIA and also change the name of the Defense Depart... War Department to the Defense Department; a little public relations move.

But also in there -- and what has been little noticed -- was the creation of the National Security Council. Well, by very definition, that’s in charge of anything that has to do with national security. UFOs? National security. Nazi infiltration? National security. High technology? National security.

And, since the National Security Council -- and we hear this all the time, almost any time that we’ve gone to fight some brushfire war and the Iran-Contra scandal, on and on -- it’s always the National Security Council is involved. And yet, I’ll bet you virtually no one listening knows who is the National Security Council. Well I’ll tell you. It’s four people: it’s the President, the Vice President, the Secretaries of State and Defense. Three of those are appointed by the President.

KC:  Mm hm.

JM:  So by signing the National Security Act of 1947 into law, we basically set up a dictatorship, because the President is now in charge of everything that has to do with national security, and this bypasses Congress and the news media and the public. This is when we began to move into a National Security state which, at the heart of which, lay these Nazis -- unreconstructed Nazis.

KC:  So, to get back to Germany, you have them discovering free energy somehow. I mean certainly they had really amazing scientists...

JM:  Right.

KC:  Okay. And they were looking into other dimensions using psychics, using remote viewing, using possible channeling. And what you’re saying is they may have been also getting technology out of those dimensions; information that they needed to build things.

JM:  Right.

KC:  Right?

JM:  Mm hm.

KC:  And there is a connection to Egypt, right? And to the Sumerians... to Sumerians’ cylinder seals...

JM:  A lot of this is -- all of this -- is part of...

KC:  A lot of the technology's back there.

JM:  ...the Earth’s history.

KC:  Right.

JM:  And it all fits together. For example: for the longest time everybody thought that Egypt was the world’s first, greatest civilization. Well, you know, that’s because it wasn’t until the mid-1800s that they began to discover these strange mounds over in Mesopotamia -- which is now modern-day Iraq -- and they began to excavate and find that there's huge cities under there.

And they began to discover the Sumerian civilization which predates the Egyptians by at least five thousand years. So what we’re actually finding out today is, is that apparently there was, in antediluvian times, a worldwide, highly technological civilization that probably covered the entire world. This is why they found pyramids in Central America, South America, China, Eastern Europe, the Giza Plateau...

And yet, something happened. There was either Earth changes, or there was a war or something, and this whole civilization crumbled. And what we know is our written history: the Sumerians, and then the Babylonians, and then the Assyrians, and then the Phoenicians, and then the Egyptians and...

These were all degradations of the same civilization. And the proof of that, for example, is in the history of Egypt. The earliest dynasties were the most advanced dynasties, and then it devolved, [laughs] it degraded. And went all the way down until we ended up in the Middle -- in the Dark Ages, and then we’ve been slowly pulling ourselves out ever since. And this is why that the people in the know -- and knowledge is power, and they want to keep the knowledge, and they don’t want us to know what’s going on -- but this is why they are rushing around the whole world just like Indiana Jones chasing the Nazis, who were chasing the historic and religious...

KC:  The icons and...

JM:  ...icons, yeah, and artifacts...

KC:  ...yeah, absolutely.

JM: know, because they’re trying to get to this ancient technology.

KC:  Okay, so, you just spent some time in Egypt, didn’t you?

JM:  Yes.

KC:  And did you find anything when you were there -- [Jim laughs] -- that blew your mind, or...

JM:  Yes. Under the Temple of Seti -- which is an immense temple and just filled with hieroglyphics -- underneath that, is a huge temple called the Osireion. And it is huge megalithic blocks that probably weigh ten and twelve tons each. No hieroglyphics on these, but they’re stacked up very similar to Stonehenge.

But they are not rough rock like Stonehenge, these are perfectly, finely cut pieces that butt up against each other so perfectly you can’t even put a piece of paper in there. And this is under the Temple of Seti, which means there was something going on over there long before the Egyptians came along.

KC:  Are they releasing this into the public domain?

JM:  No. In fact, we weren’t even supposed to be able to go down there [laughs], but we managed to kind of slip down there and see what was going on. This is the stuff they keep hidden. The same thing is that -- on the Sphinx -- it is just obvious that there is deep water erosion grooves on the sides of the Sphinx and on the sides of the ground surrounding it, which means that this is vertical water erosion. the Sphinx and the area around it had sat out under heavy rains.

KC:  You actually got into this place, which is under the Temple of Seti, you’re saying, which is built like Stonehenge, has polished stones...

JM:  Right. No hieroglyphics, it obviously predates the Seti Temple, and so this, again, more proof that there was something going on of a highly technological nature long before the Egyptians came along.

KC:  So, do they know, are they dating it at all? Has anybody... did anybody give you an indication when, what it was dated?

JM:  No. There is a huge resistance to all of this, and I couldn’t quite understand the resistance until I visited in Egypt and realized that they’re totally dependent upon the tourist dollar and upon the whole idea of the Pharaohs and Cleopatra and Nefertiti and da-da-da-da-da-da-da... and they just really can’t afford to back off of that.

They don’t want to admit that there was anything going on other than the conventional history. And, of course, everyone else who’s an Egyptologist or whatever -- they’ve got an entire lifetime, they’ve got books written, they’ve got a whole career based on their theories and their interpretation of what the Egyptians were doing. And to say that that really wasn’t quite the truth of it, then that just throws it all into a cocked hat, and they’re totally opposed to that.

However, the geologists who go and look at this very obvious water erosion on the Sphinx will tell you that that’s obviously water erosion, and historically, there’s not been any heavy rains on the Giza Plateau for 10,500 years. Which means the Sphinx, and probably the Great Pyramid, predate the Egyptians by at least 5,000 years. And five thousand years, you know, it’s hard for us to think of five thousand years.

KC:  [laughs]

JM:  Most people today think about the war between the states, you know, that just sounds like ancient history. And yet, my grandmother told me about when her father came back from the war. So it really hasn’t been that far back. And yet to us it’s ancient history, and that was, what, only about a hundred and fifty years ago. So to talk about five thousand years; my God, we just... we have a hard time even contemplating that.

But there’s no question that it points out to alternative origins for the human race and the human species. And again, how can we figure out what’s going on today if we don’t know where we came from, or the truth of our beginnings? And, what I was going to tell you is -- this is really fascinating -- is that they are bricking up the sides of the Sphinx. Ostensibly because they said: Well, it’s deteriorating and we don’t want it to be destroyed, so we’re going to brace it up, and we’re going to fix it up...

KC:  Oh, wow!

JM:  ...and preserve it, you know. But what they’re doing is they’re covering up these very...

KC:  The signs of erosion...

JM:  ...the very obvious signs of vertical water erosion which means it predates the Egyptians.

KC:  Well, what about the fact that there’s also supposed to be a library inside the Sphinx?

JM:  There’s another thing. You know, Edgar Cayce -- back in the ‘30s, the great Seer -- he says: Well, there’s a room under the left paw of the Sphinx. The Army remote viewers, by the way, took a look at that and they said: Yeah, there’s a room in there; and I said: What’s in it? And they said: Jars, and vases, with scrolls, and tablets... you know. And I’m going: Whoa! Holy Cow! The Hall of Records. We can really find out what’s going on. You know?

KC:  Absolutely.

JM:  And then they used ground-penetrating radar and they say: Yeah, we find a cavity there, under the left paw of the Sphinx. So I’m going: Okay, great! Let’s dig down there and find out what it is!

To this very day, as far as I know, nobody’s done this; they won’t allow this. They will not allow us to get to the truth...

KC:  Yes.

JM:  ...of the origins of humankind.

KC:  Exactly.

BR:  Zahi Hawass, don’t you believe, does know what’s going on here? And he’s smart enough to take account of all these... this alternative research and remote viewing, and to try and get that information for himself. Do you think there’s something going on there behind the background?

JM:  I personally suspect that somebody has already gotten in there. I just can’t believe that everybody knows it’s there and nobody'll go look to see what it is. But you have to understand that the Egyptian authorities... who pays their salaries?

KC:  Yeah, absolutely...

JM:  And who do they owe allegiance to? Who has trained them? You know, again, we’re back to the Evil Empire. [laughs]

KC:  What about the Coral... You know the Coral Palace, or whatever they call it, down by Florida, where he proved that moving those stones was done by a whole different means than what they talked about with...

JM:  Right.

KC:  ...slave labor in Egypt and all of that.

JM:  Right.

KC:  They have a vested interest in perpetuating the myth of slave labor in Egypt, but in reality, that’s not what happened.

JM:  Well you know, Kerry, that’s something that got me onto this, a long time ago before I seriously studied ancient technology and ancient civilizations, was simply the fact that we are told that the pyramids were built by the slaves of the Egyptians who dragged these stones through the desert, you know, without any [laughs] real modern wheels or anything else, and somehow built these huge edifices. Well, who were the slaves of the Egyptians? The Hebrews.

KC:  Mm hm.

JM:  Okay? And who is one of the most well documented peoples in the world? The Hebrews. They had oral traditions going down for thousands of years and then finally wrote it into the books of the Old Testament of the Bible. There it all is. And I defy you to go in there and find me one verse that says: Oh, by the way, Uncle Herbie spent his whole life dragging stones through the desert, you know, to build those pyramids.

It didn’t happen! It didn’t happen. There’s something else going on. And why don’t they want us to know about that? Well, over and above the fact that Egypt is totally dependent on the tourist dollar, based on the Egyptian mythos is the fact that this would tell us, possibly, of our extra-terrestrial origins. And, more importantly, it would point us in the way of alternative technology and energy sources...

KC:  Absolutely...

JM:  ...and this is...

KC:  ... we’re talking about sound technology...

JM:  Right.

KC:  ...we’re talking about, I don’t know, scalar waves, we’re talking about mind over matter...

JM:  Right, exactly.

KC:  Which is... this is all stuff in the Black Projects.

JM:  Yeah. Sonic frequencies, who knows. Have you seen the hieroglyphs of the figure standing there holding the big tubes?

KC:  Mm hm.

JM:  Okay, and there’s a cord that runs out and behind it and goes to the little power thing, you know -- they call it the Jedi, the tower -- I call it the oscillator, okay? When I saw those, and if you go up and look real close, unlike the rest of the caricatures on the hieroglyphics of figures where they just have the outline of the person cut into the stone, this has a double outline to it.

KC:  Hm.

JM:  And we were remarking on that and wondering what does that mean, and I’m thinking -- being a cartoonist, among other things -- is that when you want to show movement, you draw extra lines. You know, if you draw a hand, and you’ve got some lines here, it’s like the hand’s moving. So, by drawing a double outline, they’re showing that they’re going aye-aye-aye [makes sounds and shakes as if electrocuted].

KC:  Ah! [laughs] Okay.

JM:  [laughs] They’re actually using this equipment!

KC:  Right.

JM:  See? It’s very carefully... it’s just a second outline, okay? It’s not like they tried to do something else. But there’s a lot of interesting things over there. Some of the temples have been defaced by Knights Templar; Maltese crosses carved in over the hieroglyphics.

KC:  Mm hm.

JM:  And of course, see, we’re talking about stuff that’s handed down for thousands of years, and it’s been debased and defaced and vandalized by everybody and anybody. So we’re just scratching around in these ruins and trying to piece together what actually happened.

I guess the corollary would be, you know, five thousand years from now they’ll find a Coke bottle buried in the dirt somewhere and there are going to be whole scientific papers written about: I wonder what this was about. Obviously, since it’s in the female form, it must be some kind of fertility goddess icon that they worshipped. You know, this is... we’re just making this stuff up, because we don’t know.

KC:  Yeah, absolutely. So, where do we go from here? I mean, you covered the gamut and this is an amazing overview of an interview that you’ve given us. And I don’t even... I mean, you clearly show us how you can go from Egypt, to the Nazis, to the American government; and you can draw a through-line from one to the other.

JM:  Yeah.

KC:  It’s an amazing thing. So what is your solution at this point? Because I see that you can actually foresee that we could change the world...

JM:  Sure.

KC:  ...into such a place...

JM:  Sure.

KC:  ...where we could have access to free energy, access to living -- keeping all the people alive on the planet and having them fed, clothed, housed. We’re not doing it, but this is...

JM:  Why not?

KC:  ...a big step in the right direction.

JM:  Why not? Why aren’t we doing it?

KC:  That’s...

JM:  You know why? Because we sit back and we let criminals and Nazis [laughs]  gain control over the corporations and over the government that’s supposed to be looking out for us and taking care of us. And, hey! There’s more of us than there are of them. Just say: No.

KC:  I think there’s...

JM:  Throw the bums out.

KC:  ...also the myth of freedom, because if people start to realize -- and I think, certainly, they are realizing, and this is the danger of this economic downturn that’s hitting America -- is that Americans are going to realize they’re not so free, okay? That they’ve been programmed by the media, by this, by that, and they’re also curtailed by their government. And probably these, these limitations are coming down even harder and faster. So if you realize you’re not free, that’s the beginning of waking up.

JM:  That’s right. And if you think you’re free, just ask yourself: can you just pick up and move? Can you just pick up and go move to another state, or move to another country? And chances are, you’re going to go: Oh, no. I can’t do that.

Why? Because: Well, I’d lose my job, and I couldn’t make my payments, and I couldn’t make my mortgage, and I couldn’t pay my rent, and I... You’re not free! You’re not free. You don’t even have any idea what freedom is. So we’ve got to get back to the idea of freedom. And this economic turn-down or even collapse may end up being a really good thing.

KC:  Absolutely.

JM:  Because I know a lot of people who, you know, they’ve been taught to keep their nose to the grindstone and be loyal to their company and work and put in a good long... good hours of work for your boss and then you’ll be taken care of, and now they’re finding out that: No, no it doesn’t work that way. You know, you’ll work your tail off until you’re sixty-four, and then a year before your retirement they’re going to let you go -- down-size you -- so they don’t have to pay you that retirement. And this is happening more and more often, and people are beginning to realize this.

KC:  And they’re doing away with your savings, and your Social Security...

JM  ...and your savings are going away...

KC:  It’s all going to be gone...

JM:  ...your 401 is pffft, you know, it’s down 40 percent or more...

KC:  ...and retirement’s no good for anybody, anyway...

JM:  No, there’s no retirement. There’s no money in Social Security, and everybody says: Yeah, well I’ve got these insurance policies... Yeah, big deal. What if the insurance company goes broke? What have you got? You got a piece of paper, that’s all you got.

So, number one, start acquiring tangible assets. Get a little property you own yourself; get something you can grow tomatoes on. Get a home, get a building, get something you can actually have some tangible assets. Then start working doing things that you enjoy doing.

This is so cool. I know so many people who for years worked for the company, worked for the company, and then the company just cut them loose. And they found out what good that does and what loyalty does for you.

So then, in desperation, they run around and they try to find another corporate job, and that gets tough -- and particularly the older you get the tougher it gets. So then, all of a sudden they finally have to, out of desperation, they start thinking for themselves, and they go: Well, you know, what do I like to do? Well, I like to grow flowers.

So, the next thing they know they’re growing flowers, and they’re cutting flowers and they’ve started their own little flower delivery business. And the first thing you know they’re doing pretty good. And they’re making a living, and they’re getting along. They’re not getting rich, but they’re surviving; they’re doing just fine. And they’re doing what they love to do. And that...

KC:  That’s a real key.

JM:  ...that’s a real key thing...

KC:  Yeah, absolutely.

JM:  ...and really, really important. And then, as times get tough, if we just all start networking and working together as a community, you know. You grow some chickens and...

KC:  Bartering.

JM:  ...and I’ll swap you my tomatoes for your eggs, and we’ll all just get along.

KC:  That’s true.

JM:  Years ago, I had kinfolks down in east Texas, and they were just scraping out, living there in the dirt -- red dirt in east Texas -- and I remember asking them when I was a kid, I said: How’d you guys get along during the Depression?

They just laughed. They said: Hey, what Depression? They says: We didn’t have anything to begin with [laughter], we didn’t have anything during the Depression. We just kept doing what we were doing, and we got on through!

And, we’re all going to get on through. We’re all going to do, actually, we’re all going to  do good. In fact, we might even end up doing a lot better because we’re not going to be, you know... But here’s the key thing -- step one -- turn off the TV.

KC:  [laughs]

JM:  Just turn the sucker off. And you know what, after a couple weeks you’re going to find out two things. You’re going to find out, number one, you hadn’t missed anything. If World War Three starts, believe me, you’re going to know it, okay? So you’re not going to be out of the loop, all you’re going to be missing is all that celebrity news and the latest shooting somewhere, and, you know, who cares?

And number two, you’re going to find that, all of a sudden you got some time on your hands, and you’re going to start reading. And as you start reading, it’s going to stimulate your brain processes because it’s not a passive thing. You have to actually read and think about the words, and then think about the concepts. You’re going to start thinking, and you’re going to start: Wow! You’re going to start thinking about things, and you’re going to get a better appreciation of what’s really going on, and what, maybe, you could do about it.

KC:  All right. Thank you very much, Jim Marrs...

JM:  Thank you.

KC:  ...that’s really fabulous.

  -- End of interview --

BR:  That’s a good one, Jim.

JM:  All right.

KC:  Thank you.

BR:  Thank you, sir.

KC:  That’s great. That was a marathon.

JM:  Well, it was, but it’s always great to actually get in and talk about the real stuff, you know.

KC:  Yeah. Well, I’m real happy you did that. Thank you very much for going into all those places for us because, you know, you kind of went off the record a little there, and just...

JM:  Well, I’ll tell you... but you know, it’s funny it’s... [laughs] When you said: You draw ancient Egypt and the Nazis and American, it’s like ...

KC:  It’s an amazing thing.

JM:  It is. And the thing is, though, it really is, because like, if you saw my presentation, I pointed out how the Treasure of Solomon which came out of Egypt, and then it’s buried in Jerusalem, and then it’s... half of it’s taken to Rome... [laughs] and then from Rome it goes to the...

KC:  And then it makes the Nazis possible, right?

JM:  Yeah! And then the Nazis end up getting it...

KC:  And then it comes to America, right, on those...

JM:  Yeah.

KC:  ...on the U-Boat, or whatever.

JM:  Yeah.

KC:  And then Argentina. And now, supposedly, all these people are going... their whole solution is: go down to South America and get away from America, right?

JM:  [laughs]

KC:  But... Hello? [laughs]

JM:  [laughs] You go down there...

KC:  Guess who’s down there?

JM:  You’re going to really...

KC:  The Bush family in Paraguay, right?

JM:  Exactly. With... how many acres they get? Something like...

KC:  I don’t know.

JM:  I keep hearing various things. I thought it was nine thousand acres, and then I heard it was ninety-eight thousand acres, so...

KC:  And you have to look at that and say: Well, there has to be a plan there, as well.

JM:  Yeah, exactly.

KC:  They were planning that the whole time.

JM:  Well, they’re ready to bail out of the United States.

KC:  Exactly.

JM:  See, this is the thing; they got a movie they’re going to show here, which is really interesting. It’s got a really fascinating theme to it, which is that this whole thing building up to Armageddon, and that the economy’s collapsing, and the environment’s collapsing, and da-de-da-de-da... This is all a scam -- not to the public -- but to the New World Order people.

KC:  [laughs]

JM:  And they really think that it’s all about to come down, so they all had been secretly working on...

KC:  Jumping ship. [laughs]

JM:  They’re jumping ship. So they all leave the planet [applauds] and we’re here [laughs] we can go on...

KC:  We’re all good!

JM:  We’re good, we’ll have a nice life. [laughs] Isn’t that an interesting concept!

KC:  Well, I know with the Bushes in South America, we’re going to be in good shape anyway, you know what I’m saying? Let them go to Paraguay, you know?

JM:  Yeah, they’re all going to end up in hell, anyways, so what the hell.

KC:  Sure. Absolutely, yeah... it’s crazy, what they did in Argentina, I mean it’s just... That’s an amazing, amazing story as well, so...

JM:  It is.

KC:  I mean, there is no stone unturned. Antarctica, right?

JM:  Right.

KC:  They’re there. So...

JM:  It’s a whole amazing thing...

KC:  It‘s so crazy. Okay, well...

JM:  Well, thanks for the coffee...

KC:  And thank you, Jim. This has just been great...

JM:  And I’m good... oh gosh, in fact I guess I’ve got to run somewhere else now.

BR:  Jim, it’s a pleasure. Thanks for giving us your time, your energy...

JM:  Bill. Thank you.

BR:  ...your focus and your passion. That‘s all a man can give.

JM:  All right, we’re in California Suite, or Arizona Suite?

KC:  We’re in Arizona right now...

JM:  We’re in Arizona. Okay. All right. Y’all take care.

KC:  Okay, take care.

JM:  Hey, just be kind...

KC:  Yeah.

JM:  Don’t make me look like a bigger idiot than I am!

KC:  No, you’re fabulous.

BR:  We’ll do well. Don’t worry. We’ll do well for you, Jim.

JM:  Okay.

BR:  You can trust us, we promise.

KC:  You’re absolutely fabulous. We can run it by you. Whatever you want to change, just let us know.

JM:  Okay.

End sequence

BR:  ... and we say: Just Do Something.

JM:  Do something! Do what you can do... Exactly! Maybe it’s just writing letters to the editor, you know, but...

KC:  Absolutely.

JM:  Or getting out marching and carrying a sign. I don’t know, it’s just whatever you can do, but by God, do something! [laughs...]

Click here for the video interview


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Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy