Bill Ryan on Freedom Central:
Interview transcript

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Bill Ryan on Freedom Central
16 November 2009

[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.]

BILL RYAN (BR): It’s a paradox. I love the way that David Icke explained it on Saturday: that we are infinite love, infinite consciousness, temporarily experiencing what it’s like to be here with our feet on the ground, trying to figure it all out. And what we’re doing is we’re playing games; we’re just playing games.

That doesn’t mean there’s anything trivial about it, but what else is a spiritual, playful being going to do in all of eternity, apart from to play games? That’s a good way to learn; this is all a big training course.

And so there’s a paradox because just like children playing in the playground at school, it feels important when they’re playing some game and somebody’s trying to chase them and they’re trying to catch them and they’re trying to get away, and they’re trying to figure out all this kind of stuff.

Or just like being in a movie, it’s just another kind of game. It feels important, but the paradox is that it’s not.

So I’m enjoying pretending that this is important – but it’s not – because I know who I am. That gives us our ground of security. If they kill me, I don’t care. I’ll just come back. It doesn’t matter at all. I like the line in Star Wars where Obi-Wan Kenobi says to Darth Vader: If you kill me, I’ll be more powerful than you can ever imagine.

MELANI from FREEDOM CENTRAL (FC): Mm… interesting.

BR: And so, this is why it’s very important not to fall into the trap which we are intended to fall into, of believing this illusion that we are small, mortal, powerless, temporarily-animated hunks of meat, and when it’s all over, then that’s the end. And in the meantime we’ve got to fight for survival and worry about how we’re going to feed ourselves and clothe ourselves and keep warm, and all this stuff that’s at the bottom level of Maslow’s Triangle.

The real truth is somewhere else and this is why, just as David Icke has been saying in every presentation he’s been giving this year, this is why he starts with the fundamental reality that who we are is the biggest secret.

Universities destroy knowledge and religions destroy spirituality. This is where we’re at today.

So we’re not talking about believing anything. You have to get above all of that, and when you’re above all of that looking down at the whole thing, having taken off into the clouds... And this is what for lack of any better word we can call the spiritual realm, not the astral realm where you’re talking about ghosts and ghoulies and inter-dimensional beings who’re playing games just as we play games down here; you just can’t see them. It’s just the same; they’re just non-physical in our terms.

But when you get above all that, then you look down at the whole thing and all you’re looking at is you’re looking at a virtual reality game, and that’s why it doesn’t matter.

But when you and I are playing a virtual reality game on our computer, if we do that or going to see the 2012 movie, we’ll be feeling this in our body viscerally – it feels important. It’s like we want to win or we want somebody else to win if we’re watching the game, but it’s just a game. Everything’s a game. And so I’m enjoying the game.

This is like a personal statement: what gives me, what it feels like gives me strength in the game is the knowledge of who I am, because that’s home base. That’s where you go back to. That’s where you return to after the movie is over and then you talk about it and you think about it and you think: Hey, that was fun -- I’ll go back and do that one again next week.

This is why fighting doesn’t work, because fighting continues the game. We’ve been fighting for millions, billions, trillions, possibly quadrillions of years. And all that does, it just prolongs the game.

And so this is a variant of what Einstein said: That a problem can’t be solved by the level of consciousness which produced the problem in the first place. We’ve got to rise above that. And the application of that in the situation is you can’t solve this problem on planet Earth by being a human being... just being a human being... because that’s the level of consciousness which has created the problem.

You can only resolve this problem from a spiritual standpoint. Love is universal and that capacity that we all have as spiritual beings must never be forgotten.

David Icke has said this in his own way. He’s looking at the Illuminati, he’s looking at the Reptilians, he’s looking at the child-eaters, he’s looking at the torturers, he’s looking at the warmongers, and he’s saying: I feel sorry for them. They’ve lost their way. They’re spiritual beings who’ve forgotten who they are. They’re playing a game and they’re still stuck in it.

At a different level, they’ve got all kinds of abilities, they’ve got billions of dollars, they’ve got psychic abilities and the help of nasty ETs. But they don’t know who they really are. They can’t get out of their trap, either because they’ve been doing it for billions of years also.

This whole thing has been rolling on forever, almost. But it doesn’t matter... what else are we going to do in all of eternity? You see? It’s fun, and you’ve got to see it as fun.

This is why I enjoy my work, because it’s a game. But it’s a very serious game, you know. If somebody actually put a pistol to my head, I don’t really know what I would do, you know.

FC: [laughs]

BR: My body would be frightened, because the body is just an animal, like the car that we’re driving, and animals get frightened when they’re threatened. My body would probably be frightened.

As a spiritual being I would think: Oh, I wonder what it’s going to be like, going into the light. You see?

FC: So obviously, the whole search itself is very important for people. This is something I really want to focus on. You say you understand and know who you are. Does that have to do also with understanding your past lives and how they impact here?

BR: Yes, sure. I spent hundreds of years in Tibet and I came to the West in 1850. I was born into a Victorian family in London, and it seemed like a good idea at the time. I know a lot of people who’ve come from other cultures, shamanic cultures, or from other planets. It doesn’t really matter.

But we’re not talking about this very locked-down, programmed reality, as David Icke would put it, that is, our current post-industrial Western world which is very heavily under control, whereas our spirituality actually has taken a retrograde step compared the aborigines and the bushman and the shamans in South America who understand the whole story and have for thousands of years, you know.

So I came to the West. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I picked up information when I was meditating in Tibet that Those guys over there need help. I don’t know where they are, I don’t know who they are, but that’s where I am going next time because they need help.

I got hit really hard, because this is what happens to everyone who comes from anywhere else. It doesn’t matter where you come from. When you come into this reality and you get knocked on the head, big time, and many people don’t make it in their first lifetime. It’s tougher than they think.

And I didn’t make it that first lifetime, meaning that it was a bit of a tragedy and that all kinds of strange things happened and I could tell the drama, but it’s just drama. It’s a lifetime, so what? Okay, start again. Reset. Control-Alt-Delete. Reset. Come back. Do it again. You know?

And I finally got my act together this time. I had a number of things; I know who I was since then. I’ve some adventurous times. It’s not really the subject of this interview; I could go on for a long time.

FC: No, I love it, please do.

BR: But you see, if we go exploring our past lives, in a way that’s more drama that we go into. It’s like: Oh my God, I was Cleopatra; or oh my God, I was this nasty person; or I was this good...

It doesn’t matter. That’s over. It doesn’t matter, but it can give us some insight into patterns that we repeat this lifetime, which come from a program that is remaining from an old situation that we still think is happening now.

This is why people are afraid of drowning. Why? Because they had a nasty situation with water in their previous lifetime. They’re afraid of water when they’re three years old. Why? Because it happened before.

And so much that we set up here is part of our mental reaction, not our spiritual reaction, because the mind is something that we take with us. I have a slightly different definition of “mind” than David Icke does, but then that’s another story as well. We aren’t really talking about semantics here.

But so much of what we set up for ourselves when we put the chess pieces back on the board and we start the game again in another lifetime is some kind of residue from the past. And this is the only reason why it’s important: to clear things out. Not because: Oh, I was this. This is so interesting. This is fascinating and I’m going to write a book about it.

It’s not important! The reason why you find out about it is so you can forget all about it and let it go, so that it doesn’t influence you now, so that you’re completely free, so that you’re making real choices now in present time.

And that’s why... once again we’re talking words... but any kind of clearing technique – regression can do it; there are many other practices that do it as well. You can even do it in meditation. This is why remembering the past is powerful, not so that we reminisce, but so that we can let go.

And that’s the key to it, because only then can you be really, really here and now. That’s when you have all of your power, when you’ve unshackled these heavy weights from your feet. And many of those are actually rooted in the past.

What we see here on planet Earth with all of these things that are perfectly real: we’ve got very nasty people who’ve got their own karma, they’ve got their own past, they’ve got their own trap, they’re playing their own game, they’ve got their own purposes, they’ve come from their own places. They’ve come here from other places, too.

It’s just a continuation of the same thing, and so this is why what David Icke says is correct, that you’re not going to handle this by protesting on the streets. You’re not going to handle this by taking a hundred-thousand Chinese assassins and go to murder them all.

It just continues it all. Fighting doesn’t work.

What Project Camelot is doing is bringing knowledge to the people about what we’re not taught in schools, what children are not taught by their parents, what we don’t read in the newspaper – and it’s what you’re doing here in the work that you’re doing – is that we have to know the truth about where are because if... Here we are in Zurich. If we want to drive to Paris, and we’ve got a map in front of us, we have to know where we are, otherwise we’re never going to go down the right road to get to where we want to go to.

What one has to do is not to get locked into intentions, so that one is controlled by the intentions, rather than the intentions being a product of one’s own desire to reach an outcome.

That intention... you can’t make yourself a cup of coffee, or get up in the morning, or answer the telephone. And once again, this is an aspect of the paradox. In the highest possible level, these things don’t matter. It doesn’t matter whether you have a cup of coffee in the morning. It doesn’t matter whether you answer the phone. It doesn’t matter whether the world blows up in 2012. So what? We’ll just find another planet and come back, it doesn’t matter.

But on the other hand, in the context of the game, it does matter and you can’t have a game without intentions. It’s very important to separate out these two realities, and they coexist in a working paradox.

For me, my answer to the question that you asked Ruth about what advice would I give people, I would totally recommend you find out who you are -- because if you don’t really know who you are, you don’t have that reservoir of strength and certainty which is going to see you through any situation whatsoever. Even if someone’s holding a gun to your head or a needle against your arm, you know who you are.

Secondly, I’d say it’s helpful to know where you come from because that then can help you figure out what programs are running you this lifetime that are unconscious and which are your true free choices.

You’ve got to be able to separate this out. Otherwise if you feel like doing something you don’t know where it is that that’s come from. You don’t know whether it’s an old program or whether it’s something that’s a really smart choice.

Thirdly, I’d say don’t fight.

Fourthly, I’d say you have to understand that these guys need help, and not in a condescending way. There are people all over the world who are doing real spiritual work. The word “work” is applicable here because it takes time, it takes focus, it takes energy. You’ve got to shut the door; you’ve got to do whatever it is that you do.

There are a whole bunch of ways of doing it, and I do this too. Kerry does it. A lot of people do it that I know. They are handling problems in the non-physical realm where these games aren’t playing.

There are a lot of non-physical beings that need therapy! They’re upset. They need someone to talk to. Something happened a billion years ago and they’re still angry but they don’t have anyone to talk to.

FC: Are they manipulating us while they’re doing this?

BR: Yes, sure. They’re just taking out their anger like a kid on the street who’s had a bad childhood and then they go around wrecking the place. That kid probably needs help. He doesn’t need prison. He needs someone to talk to. He needs a friend. He needs somebody to say: You know what? You are a wonderful being. You’ve had a hell of an experience, tell me about it. What happened back then? Did your father abuse you? Did your big brother beat you up? What happened to you that’s made you so angry?

He might just start to get to the bottom of that because that’s his past. Now, one can communicate with these non-physical beings just as you can communicate with the kid in the street if you can get him to talk to you. They’ve got problems. They’re screwed up!

They’re angry, they’re upset, they’ve had stuff done to them. They’ve got a cycle of abuse that happens just on a physical level where you’ve got somebody who was abused by their parents then becomes the abuser of their own children. They pass it on.

The reason why they pass it on is because they go into the identity that they’re the winner in the game. It’s like: I lost that game, so I’ve got to adopt the winning strategy. What’s the winning strategy? I become the abuser and I win. They see it this way. This is how all these situations get perpetuated.

And in the non-physical realm it happens in exactly the same way. You have to communicate with these beings telepathically. There are ways to do it. You can use biofeedback machines or you can do it in meditation. You can handle these guys, and I know people who are doing a lot of work with this.

What’s really important is that every significant presenter of information in the realm in which you and I and we are operating in, many, many of… We’re working as a huge team: Project Camelot, David Icke; our friends David Wilcock, Alex Collier, George Green; a whole bunch of people, including people I don’t even know. They all have a profound spiritual orientation – every single one of them.

Now, we met Patrick Geryl. The reason why he’s wrong is because he doesn’t have a spiritual orientation. He’s a scientist. He’s trying to figure it out using mathematics. He will never do that. It doesn’t work that way.

Bill Deagle -- we spoke to Bill Deagle for an hour and a half last night. He’s a profoundly spiritual person. Kerry is profoundly spiritual person.

We spoke about Bob Dean, our great friend. He’s a wonderful, wonderful man. Everyone we speak to, and almost all the unifying thread of all the people who we talk to, they’re profoundly spiritual people.

You spoke with David Icke. He starts off his seven-hour presentation by talking about how we are all universal consciousness and infinite love. What kind of a spiritual message is that? We need to hear more of that.

And so everyone who is really working hard as educators to... I don’t know what words to use here... to wake people up, but to remind people of what they already know.

You see, the words remind and remember, they’re important words, because you can’t be reminded of something that you don’t already know. You can’t re-cog-nize something that you don’t already know. That’s where that word comes from: to re-cognize it. To re-know it.

This is why when people read books like Ruth’s book, or like many, many other books – some people have different reference points, like the Law of One. They will read a page and then they go: Ahhh! Now I understand.

But it’s not new information -- it’s old information that they’re recalling. You see, in my personal opinion, we are not evolving; we’re recovering. I think this is a profound misapprehension in much spiritual teaching that we are somehow evolving from amoeba into some spiritual being. No-no-no-no-no.

We were all gods, we started off as gods. We’re all in a fallen state. We’re all god-like beings who have forgotten who we are and so we’re getting it back again, we’re recovering, we’re clawing ourselves back out of the mud-hole, washing ourselves down, getting all of the stuff off us, and we’re remembering who we were.

So it’s a recovery process, it’s not an evolution at all. An evolution is to discredit who we really were because we started as gods. You see? It’s a fundamental orientation that is missing.

Everyone has their own touchstone, their own seed crystal which is going to start that process of reawakening themselves. There’s no right answer. Your right answer might be an inappropriate answer or not such a workable for somebody else. We all have to find our own answers.

Once again, referencing what David Icke was saying a couple of days ago, this is why I will never want to work against someone else’s intuition. If your intuition is pulling you to read the Law of One, and if you’re getting good value from that, I say whatever you’re doing that’s working, you keep on doing it.

If someone else says to me: Well I picked up the Law of One and I couldn’t understand a word of it, I say: Okay. It’s not the right book. Go find something else.

And that’s a variant of something else that I wanted to say because a lot of people write to us or come up to me and talk to me saying: What should I do? Where should I go? What’s a safe place to be? What action should I take?

And you have to be a mirror and reflect it back, you have to say: What you are here to do is probably different or may be different from what I’m here to do. Don’t try and copy me, be yourself. And the reason why you need to find out more about who you are, rediscover your strength, look at your past, meditate, do whatever processes or techniques are appropriate for you to remember why are you here – because you’re here to do a job.

This is what you refer to as, in the Law of One, as being a Wanderer. There are many, many terms for this. Dolores Cannon did a wonderful Coast to Coast show about three or four weeks ago when she referred to these people as Volunteers.

It’s a very simple word. We’re volunteers from all over the universe, different dimensions, different planets, maybe different cultures even on planet Earth. It’s like: Okay. I’m going to try and help this movement here because these guys need help.

And some people say: Well, where should I go? Should I go to Australia? Should I go to Canada? What’s a safe place to be? Should I go to Peru? Should I go to...? You know, it’s like: Well, where I should go might be different from where you should go, because maybe one of the reasons why you should go there is because you’ve got to meet someone, or you’ve got to do a job.

You don’t know what your life plan is, and everyone’s got a life plan. You think you came here without a plan? You’ve got a plan, everyone’s got a plan. Everyone watching this video has got a plan.

It’s smart to know what your plan is. If you don’t know what your plan is, it’s only because you don’t remember it, and the way to figure out what your plan is – it’s not really a question – saying: Oh! I remember. You’ll re-cog-nize it when it comes to you.

One of the indicators of what your plan is, is because it gives you energy. You start thinking about it and it’s like: Wow! I really want to do this! It gives you energy to think about it.

And you see, work, the word work is a relatively modern word. What it really means is something that you don’t want to do. Animals don’t work. Animals just exist.

In the Marquesas Islands, which is a group of French islands in the South Pacific, in their language, there’s no word for work. They catch a fish, they light a fire, they build a hut, they shelter from the rain, they go hunting, they sing a song. They don’t work.

Why are we working? We’re working because someone has got an idea of how we should structure this: work.

We don’t work! We live. And for me, I’m at my happiest often, and I’m not even going to use the word “work” in this sentence, I’m at my happiest when I’m at my most active. And the definition of happiness which I use for myself is not like: Ah, now I’m on a cloud and I’m happy and I’m sitting with a metaphorical gin and tonic watching the sunset.

That’s boring for me, personally. Happiness for me, is a direction, it’s a dynamic process. It’s being on target towards something that you want to do, or you want to accomplish. It’s not a fixed intention, like: Right, I’m going to kill somebody now, I’m going to do this and I’m locked into this idea.

But it’s a purpose, and we all came here with a purpose, and when we’re on that purpose then it no longer feels like work, it feels like a joy.

Sure, our bodies get tired. We talked to David Icke yesterday, and he was absolutely exhausted, but he was also joyful in the job that he does because he’s somebody who’s been woken up to doing what it was that he came here to do.

What you and I can do, and what I think is happening in this movement that we call the “Ground Crew”, is that people are on the way to realizing something that they want to do. In the Ground Crew meeting here in Zurich that we’ll be having in a week’s time, it’s not about organizing people, it’s about inspiring people.

To say: Okay, I’m not going to tell you what to do. What do you want to do? And if you want to organize a food co-op, then who else wants to help this person? Who’s enthusiastic? The person whose hand goes up really quickly, they’re the guy who should help this person.

It’s not about organizing people into a kind of militant army. It’s about allowing oneself to understand what it is that one is really here to do. That process of understanding, I think, is part of the awakening process that you asked Ruth about, that there is an awakening process happening. I don’t understand it, but it is happening.

Everyone we speak to, everyone we meet when we’re traveling, everyone we talk to who has also been traveling and who reports back from conferences that they’ve been to, this phenomenon is happening like a wave. There’s a wave of the expansion of consciousness.

And again, I totally agree with David Icke’s representation of this, that the Powers That Be are really, really worried about this, because otherwise they wouldn’t have to lock down on us so hard. This is why they’ve got to microchip us, or control us, or prevent us from traveling, or prevent us from communicating, or eavesdrop on our conversations, or try and put something in our bodies through a needle that’s going to compromise the effectiveness of this vehicle that we’re all dependant on here in this reality to move around.

They have to do that. They have to do all of those things because they’ve got no other power. And what does that tell us about the limitation of the box that they’re in?

I just love the way that David Icke characterizes that, and for me that says: Okay, I agree with him that it may get complicated, it may get really interesting, it may get more difficult; we may have all kinds of problems that we haven’t encountered so far in our lives up until this point.

But another story that David Icke told in his presentation was how he was told by a channel 19 years ago that one of the many things that will happen as this wave of consciousness grows is that we need to organize ourselves into groups. Because together we’ll be stronger on a logistical, practical, level.

We have to form communities. We need to form collectives which are able to handle things logistically, simply because here on planet Earth we’re dependent on keeping our bodies alive. We need food, we need water, we need heat, we need shelter, we need protection.

We don’t need to have needles inside us. We don’t need to have things which are sprayed in the atmosphere through chemtrails. There’s a whole thing going on. Electronically, our minds are influenced; on a physical level, our bodies are compromised.

And there are ways together that we can support ourselves. There are antidotes to all of these things. There are technological ways that we can shield ourselves from this and we need to help each other when the pressure really, really starts to crank up.

Everyone that we know says it’s going to get worse before it gets better, and I would agree with that. I don’t know how bad it’s going to be, I don’t know what the timeline’s going to be. I think it’s going to get tricky. It’s not the end of the world; it’s not the end of the human race.

I think it’s the most amazing training course and I think it’s quite tough. And at the end of all of this, there’s going to be something which we emerge into which will be a wonderful new start for the human race.

But between now and then... I don’t know how long it’s going to be; I don’t whether it’s two years or three years or ten years. But after that, I think that we will have emerged from all of this and that’s it going to be a fantastic recovery process. I want to be around to see that happen, because that really sounds like fun to me.

Last night we were talking to Bill Deagle, who was saying that he thought the time scale might extend to 2019. He doesn’t buy the 2012 stuff either. But between now and then there may be a lot of things to handle.

FC: I must say, just going to back to everybody has to find what it is they came here to do – like I say, you come to the point where you say: Yes, yes, I want to do that! That’s exactly what happened when I started watching Project Camelot. I’m not joking and I’ve said this before to Kerry that I lost weeks of my life. And with that, I knew what I had to do.

I came to the conference that you had on the first of August, in Amsterdam, spoke to you, and I think my husband said to you: How do you do what you do? And he had quite an emotional conversation with you. With that, at that conference, we knew exactly what it was we had to do.

I had media experience, and I thought: All right, I know that this is something that I could happily go into. I’m not going to worry about money. I’m not going to worry about how much money I’m going to make, my big house; I’m just going to do it because I feel that there’s nothing in the world that I’d rather do more.

And I still feel that way in spite of various things that have happened to us, and our information being confiscated by the Powers That Be or whoever it was, at various points.

I think it’s very important for people to wake up and realize that we all have a part to play and they need to figure out what it is, why they came here, and what it is they chose to do when they came here, and why aren’t they doing it, you know? BR: Yes. If you jump off the cliff, the angels will always catch you, but you’ll never know until you jump.

FC: Yes, very true, and they have caught us. We’ve been very, very blessed.

BR: Absolutely. So it’s got something to do with trust. It’s got something to do with courage. It’s got something to do with daring to believe that you can be all you can be – and I don’t want to sound like an American military commander here, you know.

But actually, before I entered this phase of my life where I was working 24/7 on Project Camelot, I was a team-building specialist, personal development specialist. I’ve got outdoor experience; I used to take people up in the mountains. I started off my career when I was 21 or 22 years old in Outward Bound schools.

It’s what in the older paradigm; the English stiff-upper-lip military language would have called “character training”. But what it really is -- it’s about a playground in which no harm is going to come to anyone, but there’s the opportunity for people to learn what they really can do.

I used to work with delinquent kids who used to go abseiling and rappelling off cliffs and we used to go into the mountains and camp out. And they had transformational experiences, because they never realized that they could do any of this stuff. People can do anything. People can do so much more than they are permitted to know.

Richard Branson, who many people will know as the founder of Virgin, which is quite a huge financial business empire in Britain... [laughs]... and I’m not actually advocating doing this, but one of the things that got him on his way was when he was a little tiny kid, his mother, rather than saying to him: Get down off that tree right now, would say: Go higher! Go higher! You can go higher. Bet you can’t reach that branch! Go right up to the top of that tree!

And little Richard would climb up, and he was quite frightened. He would go right up to the top of this tree and his mother would say: That’s wonderful! You’re such a brave boy! You can do things that no one else can do! You are great! You are the best kid in the whole world! Now he’s a billionaire.

His mother – and this is the kind of thing that people get locked up for now – would take this little kid, drop him off in a different neighborhood, and say: Now, let’s see if you can find your way home. And little Richard would wander around the streets and have no idea what was happening, knock on a door, saying: I’m lost.

FC: [laughing]

BR: Okay? And then the person would take this little Richard back home to where he came from and then his mother would say: That’s wonderful! You solved the problem! You did so well! You are so great! You can do anything! And he’s a billionaire and that’s because his mother was so crazy.

FC: She trained him well, didn’t she?

BR: Yes. Absolutely. But most mothers now tell their children: Don’t go out the front door because something terrible is going to happen to you. Don’t talk to that stranger because they’re going to do something terrible to you. Don’t take any risks.

I have a friend of mine in England. He’s somebody that used to be my climbing partner because I’ve done a lot of rock climbing in my life. His name is Paul. He’s a wonderful man. A lot of people sign off their letters saying “Take care”. He signs off his letters saying “Take risks”.

FC: I love it! [laughs]

BR: Isn’t that great? We should be told Life is a risk! Life is... everything you do is a risk. When you catch the bus, or you take your car to go out to where you’re going, it’s a risk. When you get in a plane to go back to Holland, it’s a risk.

When you commit yourself to your husband, to your partner, Richard, it’s a risk. By publishing this video, it’s a risk. Life is risky. You’re never going to get out of it alive.

FC: Yes.

BR: You’re never going to get out of life alive. Life’s a risk, so enjoy it.

FC: Just give me a bit of a background again on Project Camelot and how you got started, what inspired you to go on this journey.

BR: Mm. [big sigh] … Right. The reason for the pause there is I’m thinking about what level to go into this.

FC: Take as long as you like.

BR: Using whatever language you might choose; I am a Wanderer, I am a Volunteer. This is what I came here to do, I’m pretty certain.

And just as many people watching this video, and you yourself will recognize, that when you finally think: Okay, now I’ve arrived at something which I really want to do, you look back on your life and you realize that all of the experiences you had, even ones that weren’t particularly pleasant at the time, were all part of the training program which you chose in your plans.

Like: that’s why I did this! That’s why I did this! This is why I experienced that. This is why I spent the two years with this terrible person. This is why I spent a year and a half in this terrible job. This is why I chose this terrible parent, or whatever, because it made me who I am today that helps me now, with this resource base I’ve got, to do this job now.

At the time we don’t understand what’s happening. We think: Oh poor me! Why am I doing this? It’s all part of the plan.

Now I recognize that so much of what I experienced has actually led me to this point. I spent the first eight years of my life in Africa. I worked in the Outward Bound schools. I was a leadership and a team-building trainer. My mother was a writer who coached me in writing and presentation skills. She was an author. She always used to say I should write a book. I haven’t done that yet, but there’s a book in here waiting to come, you bet there is, it’s just a matter of time.

In my management consultancy career, I learnt how to handle executives, how to handle people in authority, how to handle meetings in large corporations, how to present... You know, it’s like all of this suddenly comes into play.

And so I’ve arrived at the point where this is just a wonderful playground where I can start to deploy all of these skills and abilities. At the time I just thought I was being a human being trying to make it all work. But this is what it was all about.

Now, I had an abduction experience 20 years ago which it in itself is a very long story, and I don’t understand all of that story. And many people who’ve had abduction contactee experiences don’t understand their stories either.

Rather than feeling that: Oh my God! Something terrible happened to me and these guys were abusing me when they carried me out of my tent in the Himalayas at 7,000 meters in December... I was abducted out of my tent. This was not a military operation. I was floated over the glacier in the middle of the night in when the temperature was about minus 14, minus 15.

FC: Were you conscious when this happened? Did you see it?

BR: Yes, but I couldn’t move, I was paralyzed. It’s a standard abduction experience in a rather unusual place.

It’s a very, very complicated story about time and I still don’t understand the ins and outs of it, but I’m as sure as I can be that what was happening then was this was part of a set-up. It was part of a set-up for what I’m doing now. It’s like... I don’t know what they were doing. It was probably a software upgrade. There’s probably a software upgrade of some kind.

I think that some of the abductions that take place are probably hardware or software upgrades. I can’t prove it. It’s just my own silly idea, but that’s how I have resolved that situation, temporarily, for myself.

At that time, I had a girlfriend called Angie, who... That was a very, very strange story, and I had a number of strange experiences which led me to conclude that she was not fully human in the accepted sense of the word. Now, I don’t even know what I mean by that, but there was certainly something inside her that wasn’t human.

FC: Was this the one that grew, like two feet overnight?

BR: She grew two-and-a-half inches overnight – not two feet.

FC: Oh, right. [laughs]

BR: Two-and-a-half inches. And I don’t know whether it was overnight or not, but it was certainly within two weeks. I mean, you know, it’s one of these things that’s medically impossible.

And every now and then she used to say to me things that seemed to come from somewhere else. They didn’t seem to come from this little 26-year-old girl doing an ordinary job, who looked, walking down the street, like any other 26-year-old girl. Every now and then she would say something that came from a completely different place.

And one of the things that I remember that she said to me over breakfast one morning. It’s like, we had the coffee and the toast on the table, and then she suddenly looked up at me and she said: The earth is a very beautiful place, and it won’t always be this way.

It’s like: What? And then she kind of flipped back into her 26-year-old little girl mode and she didn’t even acknowledge that she had said it. You know.

She would say things like that. She would say to me: You’re a very special person. We won’t always be together, but I will always love you. And she would say this to me over and over again. She’d say: You’re very special, you’re very special.

At first I thought she was just being nice. Now I think she was trying to tell me that I’m very special in some way. Now, I’m not saying that I’m the only person who’s very special; there are tens of thousands of people who are very, very special.

When she walked out on me, she said: My purpose in your life is complete.

FC: How did you deal with that?

BR: I couldn’t. I couldn’t deal with it at all. I was devastated. I had no frame of reference with which I understood that at all.

Only later did I realize that her presence in my life was part of this preparation. At the time I had a very deep sense that I was involved in something important and I had no clue what it was. I thought: My God, I’ve been chosen for something. Why am I experiencing this with this girl? Why is she in my life?

I had another similar experience with my best friend at the time who I went on the mountaineering trip with in Nepal where I was abducted out of my tent. He was one of these guys as well. It’s just... it’s ridiculous.

He would say things to me. I remember once when I was being silly about something; I can’t even remember what it was. He talked to me. I mean, he was my best buddy. I used to, in the days when I used go down to the pub, I’d go down to the pub with him. I used to go climbing with him. He was a wonderful man. His name was Dave.

He talked to me and his voice changed. He said: You are way out of balance. He said: I don’t know where these words are coming from, but you are way out of balance. I mean, this is my friend. He never said anything like that before or since. I mean, he was right. My life was way out of balance at that time, and I was being coached.

Alex Collier, in his presentation in Los Angeles, when he came out of retirement – I hope not temporarily – and he came to speak. Very, very powerful presentation.

FC: Indeed.

BR: He’s another very spiritual man. He introduced the idea, just as like an open question to anyone who was listening at that time, was: Would you be open to being mentored by an extraterrestrial race?

And some people ask us, somebody asked me just yesterday: Where are the benevolent ETs? Where are they? We’re surrounded by these Reptilians. Where are the good guys? You know, come on out, we need your help.

Well maybe they’re mentors sitting there, right here and now, waiting for us to wake up to the fact… Like maybe all we’ve got to do is ask. We’re not asking from the point of view: I’m so small. I’m a pathetic human. I can’t understand things.

It’s like: Okay, we’ve got an agreement. I recognize that I’m open to learning. I would like to wake up in the morning with a very clear sense of something which I’m confused about.

It’s not like an intention, but it’s just like: This is where I want to… Now, some people talk about asking their Higher Self the same question and that’s another very, very viable technique. Ruth and I talk about this all the time. We say: Okay, what does our Higher Self say? Our Higher Self can often come up with some very good information.

But we’re also able to ask our friends. We have a mutual friend... maybe we can’t mention his name without permission, but he reverts to his guides all the time. It was his guides who suggested to him very strongly that you should look in the engine of your vehicle after it had been interfered with. Lo and behold, he was right! Where did that information come from!?

Somebody watching there, somebody looking at the whole thing, they’re going: Hey! We can tell you something if you’re willing to open up and listen to us.

There are non-physical beings, or beings that may be physical from their viewpoint but non-physical from our viewpoint because we’re talking about over-lapping realities and dimensions.

I saw a being in my bedroom 20 years ago when all this stuff was happening with Angie. It appeared like a kind of hologram. It was kind of phasing in and out of reality. It was real, it was very real. Now, I’m sure for him he was solid, but I saw him like a kind of hologram. He kind of appeared, looked pretty physical, looked at me there for about five seconds, then faded out again.

Jake Simpson, our insider contact who we’ve got on Project Camelot, said that the military of some countries have mastered this technology – because it’s just technology – and they can walk through walls. Their super-soldiers can walk through walls.

He referred to it as a phase-shift. You shift the phase... I don’t know what this means! You shift the phase of these electron clouds, quantum probabilities, and empty space that we call matter, such that they just move through each other.

Why not? The only reason why two things hit each other and bounce off is because you’ve got the apparency of a force through the various electromagnetic reactions that are at a quantum level. I’m not saying this technically accurately.

You’ve got the Strong Nuclear Force, the Weak Nuclear Force, you’ve Electromagnetism and you’ve got Gravity – these are the four basic forces as best as I remember it. And the combination of these things results in the apparency of things being solid, and the fact that I can’t put this hand through this wall.

I have spoken with somebody who was at a party where there were some people who seemed to be Illuminati-connected, Illuminati, basically. They are black magicians, among many other things. They can do all kinds of stuff. And ultimately, because everything is a solid expression of thought or spirituality, whatever words you want to use, we can actually transcend this stuff without using high technology.

And so he watched a demonstration by somebody who put his hand through the wall. Like wwwhhht, like a special effect in a movie, straight in, straight out. And people can bi-locate, people can levitate.

If you read that wonderful book which I read many years ago that David Icke referenced in his presentation, Michael Talbot’s The Holographic Universe, there’re a couple of chapters in there about miracles in the past.

David Icke talks about fire-walking. There are many, many documented instances of people in a state of religious ecstasy, which basically is in a trance state, some kind of an altered state, where red-hot branding-irons don’t touch their skin; they’ve got big hooks in them, and then the hooks are taken out of their body, and then suddenly, there’s no wounds anymore.

In the modern day we’ve got these psychic surgeons in the Philippines, who can reach inside someone’s body, take out a tumor, remove it again, and then the body just heals over, that’s it, and then he’s got the tumor in a jar. No anesthetic, no nothing, he just reaches in and pulls it out. These are Filipino psychic surgeons.

Lyall Watson in his books Supernature and Lifetide, talks about this quite a lot. There are a whole bunch of them in the Philippines.

FC: Wow.

BR: There are about, last I heard, about 20 of them. There’s a guy in Brazil whose name, I believe, translates as “John of God”. He handles something like up to 3,000 patients a day. They come in a long line; they’re about ten seconds each. He says: Okay, you need this. You need this. You need this.

And sometimes he picks up a rusty razor blade, opens them up with this rusty razor blade, no anesthetic, no nothing. He just says: Right, okay, [makes slicing sound], pulls something out, and that’s it. Okay. Right. Next! And then there’s no wound, there’s no nothing, and they’re fine.

FC: That’s incredible.

BR: And his name is “John of God”. I’d love to go and see him. I mean, he’s on the Internet. You can check him out, you can go on tours, you can go and see him, and then you can be one of those 3,000 people. And if you get the rusty razor blade treatment, make sure you’ve got your camera.

FC: [laughs]

BR: So all of that is testimony to the fact that, as Michael Talbot would put it, we are living in a Holographic Universe.

FC: Yes.

BR: And we got into talking about this because I was talking about my friend who told me about the party that he went to with these strange Illuminati characters, where he put his hands through the wall. And before that we were talking about this Being that was in my room who materialized. And before that we were talking about seeking help from our etheric friends who are also in this non-physical world.

But all of this, if you see it all as a Star Trek holodeck, where you’ve got all of these different things, and whatever you see depends on what, as David Icke would say it again, what radio station you’re tuning into. All of these are metaphors. You have to kind of grok this, you know, these concepts.

You realize that there’s so much room for anything to happen in life that you want to. Miracles become possible. There is no such thing as coincidence. One can plan one’s own life. You can meet who you need to meet. And if you want to apply this on a physical level, you can step in a jump-room and you can end up on Mars, because it’s just another application of practical magic.

There’s nothing really going on anyway, it’s just a dream. Why don’t you make it a lucid dream and then you can do anything you want to. Some people do that.

The Tibetan mystics – and I spent hundreds of years hanging out with them, and I used to be one, I think, at some point – had these sorts of abilities. They can do all kinds of stuff over there. It’s never really been exported into the Western world.

In the West, we’re very technology-dependent. We exist in a very, very controlled way. We’re lied to, controlled, manipulated, from the moment that we’re born. And we think that we’re the most advanced race on Earth, and actually, we’re really the most primitive.

This is where I have my difference, and this is a leap here: I love the way that Richard Dolan, in his presentation at the Los Angeles Camelot Conference and in other presentations he’s made, he argues the point very, very cogently that just because a civilization is technologically advanced, it doesn’t mean that it knows what’s going on. It doesn’t mean it’s spiritually advanced. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to have grown beyond the point of being benevolent.

And he uses this wonderful example that just supposing we now had a time machine, we could go back just a thousand years and talk to some of the people in the year 1000 A.D., and you could bring your camera with you, you could bring your laptop with you. You could maybe bring your car with you. You could bring your cell phone with you.

They would see all of this incredible technology that, to them, would be like magic. They would say: You are such advanced beings, you must have solved every problem in wherever it is that you come from. You must all be benevolent. You must all be like angels. You must have handled the problems of war, poverty and disease, because look at this technology that you’ve got.

The logic doesn’t work. The logic doesn’t work. Just because you’ve got fancy toys that do things that seem like magic, it doesn’t mean that we’re at an advanced level of spiritual ability. It just means you’ve got fancy toys, and some of the ETs are like that.

That’s what’s wrong with this hypothesis that says that just because they’re flying about, they’re using things that don’t seem to be rocket ships, and seem to access to other dimensions, and they can do fancy stuff with all of their toys, it doesn’t mean that they are advanced beings, spiritually. It doesn’t mean that they’re benevolent. It doesn’t mean that they’re friendly. It doesn’t mean that they don’t have their own problems.

It just means that they’re beings operating in this universe playing games like we all are. They have their own karma, they have their own past, they have their own agendas, they have their own purposes. They may be doing things with us, to us, that we can’t even imagine and it’s very, very dangerous to make the assumption that they’re all wise and all benevolent. They may not be.

I just wanted to slip that in because it’s so important, given that we’re talking about technology.

FC: I see. Well, on that vein, I want to get into talking about extraterrestrial beings, either on or off Earth. What is actually going on? Who is running this planet? And [laughs] when are they going to come out and let us know they’re here?

BR: Ah! There’re a couple of simple questions for you.

FC: Yes.

BR: [sighs] I don’t know. There seems to be a move towards something. Let’s just build this up slowly.

Larry King, on his show Larry King Live, has had more people on his interview show talking about UFOs and extraterrestrials this year than he has ever had before. Why? Interesting.

Last year, the head Vatican astronomer, his name I can’t remember, made a public statement – this is my paraphrase – saying that: If extraterrestrials exist, we must remember that they are all our brothers and sisters under God. So that came right out of the blue. Where did that come from, or why did he say that?

Last week, approximately, if I remember rightly, the same guy held a five-day conference all about the possibility of the reality of extraterrestrial life.

Another interesting thing that’s happened is that NASA has announced that there is water on the Moon as a result of the LCROSS space probe crashing-into-the-Moon experiment that they did.

Richard Hoagland, who we know, he’s an interesting guy with interesting theories. He’s no fool. We like him. He’s a smart guy. He makes a lot of interesting contributions to these debates. He predicted on Coast to Coast that the next step in this chess game was that they would announce that there’s water on the Moon, because that’s one of the things that... It’s like introducing these ideas. It’s like: Oh, there’s water on the Moon.

Okay, now most people realize that where there’s water, there could be life. Next thing, they’ll find something else. So it’s coming.

Clay and Shawn Pickering, who are two New York-based researchers, and what they told us isn’t new to the extent that it has not been reported before. Michael Salla has reported this story. It’s been reported on the Open Minds Forum.

It created a little bit of a stir about 18 months ago when they reported that they’d been contacted by a US Navy source who disclosed the reality of meetings in the United Nations, of one meeting at the United Nations behind closed doors that was disguised as something else, but was really a meeting about preparing internationally for the Disclosure of the extraterrestrial reality. And after that it went to a number of other venues in various places.

Based upon the principle that if there is to be Disclosure to the world’s population, the Americans have got to be in agreement with the Russians and the Chinese and the Germans and the French and the Brits and the South Africans and the Australians and everyone else about how they’re going to play this story out; if you take South Africa...

If the American President makes a statement, then the next thing that will happen is that the South African president will be asked the same question by the South African press, saying: What do you know about this? He’s got to give the same answer. Otherwise you’ve got a real problem, because you’ve got people giving different accounts.

What account to give, and what to say, and how to say it, apparently is being discussed at very high levels and has been for at least 18 months and probably for much, much longer than that.

When Clay and Shawn Pickering contacted us -- this is all on the Project Camelot site -- they referenced our interview with Stephen Greer. We’ve had a lot of interesting feedback about that. Some people really didn’t like it. It’s like: How could you challenge this guy? How could you be so belligerent? How could you disagree with him so strongly when it’s just meant to be an interview? they say.

Clay and Shawn Pickering said: This is the best interview you’ve ever done because the level of passion and disagreement and intelligent debate, and heated intelligent debate, mirrors exactly what is the reality behind closed doors at the highest level of policy.

They said: This is completely representative of the angst and the disagreement and the concern that there is among good people at the highest levels of policy.

They don’t have the answers to these questions either. They don’t know who they can trust. They don’t know what to say. They don’t know what it means if somebody comes along saying: I’m an ET -- here’s some technology and we’re giving it to you because we like you.

Now of course, I’m saying that in a sort of playful way, but how can we understand and how can we be sure of the agendas of these beings? Some of them will be genuinely friendly and others may not be.

It’s very, very important to make the right decisions about these and it’s very, very important to give people the right information. I think that whoever it is who’s pushing for this Disclosure – and it is coming, I believe. Something’s coming. We don’t know when and we don’t know what and we don’t know how much truth it’s going to contain.

Pete Peterson, when we spoke to him at the end of June of this year, told us that he had been told by his own source… Now, let me back up a little bit here, because this has become an Internet rumor that’s kind of gone wild.

I’ll just repeat again exactly what he said. He said that he had been told by a source of his that television time had been booked for the 27th of November, across many networks, in which Obama was planning to make an announcement. After then immediately after that he said: Just because it’s planned doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. We spoke to him a short while ago and he said he’d give it 50/50. That’s just his personal guess.

This is the information that David Wilcock was referring to when he went out on quite a long thin limb on Coast to Coast. Now, we love David, he’s a good friend of ours, he may know things that we don’t know. But based upon what we were all told by Pete Peterson at the same time, I would not have said something quite so strongly as David did.

The problem is with making a prediction like that is -- like Blossom Goodchild last year -- you get to look a little bit silly if you’re wrong. So I want to present this with every caveat I can think of, that who knows whether it’s going to happen the 27th of November?

It looks like, if they were going to make a run-up to this, they should be saying a little bit more than just they found water on the Moon.

It sounds like there are several other intermediate steps before they say something. Clay and Shawn Pickering tells us that the heated debates behind closed doors are still going on and they’re not close to being resolved yet.

My personal feeling, and I do want to say this on record, is that we’re not going to hear anything on November 27th. I’d love to be wrong, but I think it’s too early. I think that may have been hopeful.

It may well have been booked, but who knows what other provisional bookings they’ve made for the coming months? We just don’t have that information. Pete Peterson doesn’t know either. He was just reporting what he was told.

It’s coming, we don’t know when, we don’t know what we’re being told, and some people in the Disclosure movement think: Right. Our long battle for 30,40, 50 years, ever since Roswell, is going to be over as soon the President or whoever it is makes his announcement to the White House Press Corps.

And I would say: Well actually that’s where it might just begin, because we don’t know what they’re going to say. We don’t know how some of those questions are going to be fielded. We don’t know what happens after that. There may be a whole new game on in terms of: Oh my God! They’ve told us this, and we know that that’s not true.

Now, everyone in the world is believing that good comes from the President’s mouth. So now we’re doing a new level of problems to deal with in terms of what’s true, what’s not true, what’s been reported, what do people believe, how is this making people react, and why they are doing all of this.

You have to see this whole thing as a chess game, and a chess game can be played out in many different ways. It could be a distraction to give people something to get fascinated with for several months while this all comes out while meanwhile, they’re doing their micro-chipping quietly on the other…

I mean, it’d be a wonderful way to take the heat off the swine flu debate by suddenly announcing that ETs are real. All of a sudden this thing about whether or not children should get vaccinated starts to feel not very interesting. It’s much more interesting and sexy to talk about this other stuff. They could be doing it now.

There are so many things happening at once at the moment. The 2012 movie was released just a few days ago. I haven’t seen it yet. I’m told it’s not very good, but it’s very spectacular. But they’ve released that for a reason, and there is definitely is a plan to drive us into fear, because fear makes us easier to control.

One has to think the way they think. These people are very clever. Everything that happens is for a reason. There may be a whole bunch of misdirects going on that are causing us to feel and think and worry about and maybe react against this thing over here, and something very quietly is happening over there. We need to be smart enough to try and anticipate what these games are. Once again, I use the word “game” advisably because we have to see it that way.

When our interview with Deagle, the one that we did last night, is published – and I hope to do that this afternoon because it’s very, very important stuff – he presents a different scenario for what we might be experiencing, not just up to 2012 but up to maybe as late as 2019. He doesn’t think at all that things are suddenly going to go pear-shaped in December 2012.

He’s a very smart man, is Deagle. He’s sure that Patrick Geryl and Cliff High have got this all wrong. He says that there is likely to be some very intense solar activity that’s going to result in physical effects on this planet, and that there will be a crustal displacement.

It’s a very interesting theory, this – not a pole shift -- but the Earth’s crust is like the skin that’s formed on hot milk. It’s sort of looks like its solid, but actually, it can move around. It doesn’t break up, but it can break up, and it kind of floats about on this viscous surface, which actually is the hot magma underneath the crust.

He says that his calculations and insider sources indicate that over a period of time, what is likely to happen is that there will be a gradual crustal displacement that will happen at about walking pace that will happen over a period of several months.

Geologically, that’s very, very fast, but it doesn’t make for a good disaster movie because the continents will start to rearrange themselves at the rate of about two kilometers an hour, a walking pace, something like that.

But after three months, everything is going to be in a slightly different place. And then the weather’s going to change, and then the ice caps are going to melt, and then the sea level’s going to rearrange itself. He says that Japan is probably going to disappear, and all kinds of things that are pretty heavy duty, but the world’s not going to end. It’s going to result in problems in the food distribution.

There’s likely to be corona mass ejections which will influence and affect anything that operates electromagnetically.

We’ve had insider information ourselves at Camelot. We heard back in April [2009] from the wife of an electrical engineer who had suddenly been briefed that he had about three or four years to handle the problem of every transformer in the British National Grid burning out.

We corresponded with the wife of this guy. There were several emails over a three- or four-day period because this guy was away.

And she said: Look, I can’t answer your questions because I’m not a scientist and I’ll put them to him as soon as he returns home.

And we heard nothing else at all because presumably – we can only assume and it felt absolutely real – we could only assume that this guy got home and said: What the hell are you doing? We can’t talk to anyone about this. It’d be too dangerous, and I’ve been threatened. You can’t do this. Please, you shouldn’t have talked to these people.

And then we’ve heard from other people with very, very similar things. Bill Deagle confirms this. There are electrical engineers all over the world working in the public domain who’ve already been briefed that they need to take care of stuff that might possibly happen.

And the population reduction plans... [laughs] This is such a big subject; it’s very hard to go at it in a linear way. The population reductions plans are basically... See, the obvious question is: Look, if you’re going to have significant Earth changes and a breakdown in the infrastructure and a breakdown in food production, and all of this, which are going to be life-threatening of life-ending for a lot of people, why are they worried about reducing the world’s population at the same time through artificial means, as they are?

Deagle’s response to this, basically, is that it’s a matter of timing. They’re trying to anticipate when these things will happen. They need to have the world’s population reduced by the time that these things really kick in because otherwise their own survival may be threatened by too many people running around doing unpredictable things.

But before that, they don’t want to wipe people out too quickly, which is one of the reasons why they may not have done it until now, because they want to keep up the manufacturing base, which they’re dependent on because the gadgets which they use to keep them alive in their underground bases... somebody’s making these things; they’re not making them in their own factories. You and I are making these things, metaphorically speaking.

So the people in the factories all over the world need to be able to keep up their production. And so it’s a matter of keeping things going for as long as possible and then just before the music stops, metaphorically speaking, then they’re going to say: Okay, you guys are not needed anymore. Now we start to reduce the world’s population. And then the Earth changes start and then they all go underground; and then they’ve got their Plan B which is the bases on the Moon and Mars.

Now, all of this, Deagle says, may only start to pan out as late as 2019. He doesn’t buy the 2012 thing at all, and I don’t either. I suspect that the 2012 thing is a big misdirect, and the very fact that we’ve got this Roland Emmerich movie coming out confirms to me that it’s more likely to be a misdirect. It’s like: Right. If he’s saying this, then something else is going to be happening. In the meantime, we’re all meant to be believing this.

But there’s something going on, and we and you and a whole bunch of other people who are watching this movie right now are busy trying to figure this out. We’re not jumping on the bandwagon to claim that Bill Deagle is correct about this, but he’s very, very smart, he’s very, very well intentioned; he’s got his own insider sources, and what he was describing – which very soon after, if not before this video is published, we will have that full hour and a half audio on our site; it’s the kind of thing you need to listen to three or four times, because it’s very, very intense – it rang true to me. It rang true to me.

It’s not a disaster, but it’s a big change. It happens every 11,500 years, and was the same kind of thing that we read about in the legends, as the legend of Atlantis, the Great Flood, so on and so forth. A whole bunch of stuff happened. But it wasn’t a big wipeout; it was just a little bit of a reset and a little bit of a reorganization. And a lot of the high technology that existed back in those days disappeared.

And then that correlates, of course, with what Hoagland has been saying all this time, which is really, really interesting. He says all these ruins that are on Mars and on other rocky moons. Iapetus, one of the moons of... is it Saturn or Jupiter? I can’t remember – it’s got incredible structures on it. [Ed note: Saturn]

I mean, the whole Solar System seems to be littered with artifacts of different kinds. But he says it’s just humans having done their thing in previous ages. He says it’s not ETs building this stuff -- it’s us. It’s our history. He said it’s our history! We don’t know our own history. Very, very interesting pieces.

Now, of course, there are probably ET bases there as well. We heard from ‘Henry Deacon’ (Arthur Neumann) about the Mars base that’s occupied, or rather, jointly occupied, by human military, or human military intelligence, whatever you want to call them. But there are other ETs there as well. There’s life and people, you know, people, everywhere.

But a lot of the stuff out there, Hoagland claims, actually is us from previous ages. We’ve been out there and we’ve left our ruins behind. I don’t know whether it’s true or not. It’s a fascinating thesis, and Deagle is not... Let me put this right: Deagle is not in disagreement about this. We do want to point people towards Bill Deagle’s work.

And a lot of people say that he’s a fear-monger, and a lot of people say that David Icke is a fear-monger. And actually I introduced David on Saturday by saying that he’s one of the most positive, optimistic, courageous people that you could ever think of. And he says that the idea that this might all have a bad ending never really occurs to him. And Deagle is exactly the same.

But he’s not saying, and David Icke isn’t saying, that we’re not going to have a tough time. We may have a tough time. And some people may have to drop their bodies and pick up another one somewhere.

But that’s not the end of the game, and that doesn’t make it all into a disaster movie; it makes for quite a lot of drama and quite a lot of change and quite a lot of interesting things going on.

But in the biggest picture, after all this, there actually is the opportunity for the human race to emerge into what many, many psychics have seen as being, after all of this chaos, some kind of a Golden Age which will emerge.

And one of the messages that I want to give here is that if this was all going to be a dreadful, terrible story, I wouldn’t be here. You see, I wouldn’t be here. I know that. I wouldn’t be here. I wouldn’t have come here in 1953 to do what I’m doing now. I would’ve gone off to some other planet… I mean, there are all kinds of wonderful places to be out there where you can really have a lot of fun doing a lot of different things.

I’m here because there’s a good chance that this game is going to result in a good outcome. In the meantime it’s fun, it’s interesting, it’s a learning experience, it’s a training course for you and me, and everyone else too. I’m really pleased that I volunteered for this, but I didn’t volunteer for a dead end.

And all the wonderful children who are coming in, who they’re trying to control with Ritalin and all these drugs and all these… you know, I mean, all the Indigo children, they’re coming in in waves and waves. The cavalry is coming. They’re little kids running around – the cavalry is here!

We get letters from people, we get e-mails to Project Camelot. We get more and more letters from younger and younger people, people who are in their teens, people who are in their early 20s, and they have levels of awareness and information which they’re holding in their understanding that I never had when I was that age.

When I was 20, even when I was 30, I hadn’t got a clue what was going on! I had no idea at all! I was trying to figure it all out. And these guys are really on the ball. Some of them can’t spell very well, but that’s not important!

We have so many people saying: I know I’m here for a reason. I want to find out what I’m here for. I understand all this information. Your information has helped to wake me up. Your information has helped me realize that I’m here… You know. We get this from more and more people, and younger and younger people.

And of course we’re working as part of a huge team. You’re going to start getting these messages as well, if you haven’t already started to get them.

FC: Yes. Mm-hm.

BR: And there are people working all over the world in different cultures, in different ways, and all of this is happening. It’s a movement. It’s a movement.

And all of these young kids, they would not be here if this was a dead-end, fixed, rigged game. They’d have gone to another table, another planet. They’d be doing something else. They wouldn’t be here. They’re here because there’s a good chance… because it’s fun, because we’re working together, because they can reconnect with people who they’ve got an agreement to reconnect with.

Many of us have known each other before. This is why, I’m sure, that since you started doing what you’re doing, you’ve been bumping into people who you’ve only met for one or two days, and you think: My God, I felt I’ve known you all my life!

It happens all the time! And the reason for that is ‘cause they’re not strangers, they’re old friends. You have an agreement; it’s part of the life-plan to meet up and work together because this is what you’ve done many times before. The reason why it’s fun to work with people is because it was fun last time. So here we go again.

It’s like a long series of movies, where you get the same characters again, faced with a different problem, and here we go. You know? And that really is the way that it is.

And so, that, for me, is one of the most important messages of hope that there is, that this whole cavalry wouldn’t be investing themselves here if it was all hopeless. They’re investing themselves here because there’s something really valuable that could come out of this.

I don’t think anything’s fixed. It’s not fixed to have a good outcome; it’s not fixed to have a bad outcome. But it’s a fascinating game. And my message to anyone who’s watching this, who feels that this... that what I’m saying is saying anything to them... is you are probably watching this video right now for a reason. Nothing happens by accident. If you find yourself thinking: What should I be doing? What should I be being? [laughs] Even if German is your language and you’re fascinated by Ruth’s book, then that’s a good place to start.

Whatever it is that you feel drawn to do at this moment, then that could be what it is that you’re here to do. Be smart, be careful, check things out with people, be aware for all the tricks you possibly can do, but follow your instinct. If you spend all your time trying to think it out logically, you’re not going to get anywhere. You’ve got to jump off the cliff. The angels will catch you because the angels are real.

FC: Brilliant, that’s excellent, thank you Bill. I just want to go back to the question of please tell us about who’s actually running this planet. Is it the Reptilians?

BR: [laughs]

FC: Who is it… what’s going on?

BR: Okay. Okay. Who’s running the planet? The Anunnaki are part of the picture. The Anunnaki are an interesting bunch of people. There is a lot which I don’t know about them. And these seem to be a good example of what I was talking about a little earlier in this conversation, that rather than saying: Oh, my God, these are people that we’ve got to worship, or we’ve got to fight, or we’ve got to propitiate to, or we’ve got to appease, or we’ve got to negotiate with, actually maybe they’re people who came here with a problem.

And there is information from different sources, including some of my own information, which feels real – and I’ve heard this elsewhere – is that they may have lost their planet. Because bad things happen out there. It’s a violent universe.

For any race of beings, any advanced race of beings that loses a planet, that’s a tough problem to solve because it’s like somebody losing their house in an earthquake and then wandering around wondering where they can live. They think: Oh, that’s a nice house, and that’s a nice house, but everyone’s already living in the nice houses, you know.

Now, this is a very poor analogy. You can’t just wander into a beautiful empty house. All the beautiful planets are already occupied. They’ve already got people, or beings, who seem to be there.

Now it’s possible that – and I present this as a hypothesis – it may be that they’re working through their own karmic history as a race. Just supposing a planet was destroyed, then the race had nowhere to go; but because they hadn’t been very nice to people before that, nobody wants to take them on board as refugees. Then they’ve got a problem.

One of the things that Clay and Sean Pickering said… now, they don’t know anything about the Anunnaki, this is highly compartmentalized. I think that at least some of the Anunnaki, or the people who are called the Anunnaki, are Reptilians. And remember that the word “Anunnaki”, as translated by Sitchin, simply means “those who came from heaven to Earth”. It’s like a generic term for extraterrestrials, really, visitors. They don’t call themselves the “Anunnaki.” I don’t know what they call themselves.

It’s possible that these are refugees looking for a place to squat, a place to take over, people to negotiate with, a role to play, a place to be – I don’t know.

If we imagine that there’s a race that lost their planet, they’re likely to be heavily traumatized, they’re likely to be split into different groups, they’re likely to have disagreements between themselves about what they should do. Some of those beings, some of those people, might say: Okay, we should ask for help. Others might say: No, we’re a warrior race. We just go in and invade those people. We have no respect for them anyway, and besides, we like their real estate.

[FC laughs]

We’ve been told that the Anunnaki have split into a number of different factions, and actually they don’t necessarily get along well with each other. Some of them may well be friendly. Some of them may not be.

I met Barbara Lamb, who is a therapist who works with contactees. She’s widely respected; she’s a wonderful person. I met her in Los Angeles in February. And she told me that a Reptilian had materialized in her room, physically, held her hand for two minutes, looked her in the eye, and gave her the information that he had been bred as part of a program to communicate with people, chosen people, with the message that they are not all unfriendly. That was his role, and Barbara Lamb understood this because she’s heard all of these stories.

You know, just because somebody’s eight feet tall with muscles and scales and green… I mean, I don’t know what they look like, you know. They probably look pretty frightening. But that doesn’t mean to say that they’re not nice people.

As Ruth said, the bottom line, once you disentangle all of this mess that we’ve got down here at this level of reality, everyone is infinite consciousness. Even a nasty Reptilian who eats babies. They’re infinite consciousness too. They’ve just forgotten who they are, just like you and I have, maybe.

And so there’s room for compassion in this. This is where the infinite love thing fits in. See, there’s room for compassion, there’s room for realizing that these guys might have a big problem. Most people who do something that’s antisocial or violent or nasty, they’re just trying to solve a problem.

If somebody holds you up at knifepoint down a dark alley and steals your wallet, they’re just trying to solve a problem. If somebody bombs another country, they’re just trying to solve a problem. If somebody takes over a planet, they’re just trying to solve a problem. If your partner screams at you and throws a plate at you in the kitchen because they’re upset, they’re just trying to solve a problem.

They’re just self-medicating by doing something that makes them feel better. So any bad thing that anyone ever does is just they’re trying to solve a problem. It’s just that, usually, when these things result in a negative effect on somebody else, it doesn’t really finally solve the problem, it’s just very temporary. It just feels like they’re solving a problem. It doesn’t actually end the whole thing.

This is what karma is. Karma is trying to solve a problem in a way that creates another problem, creates another problem, creates another problem, creates another problem, and the whole thing never ends. You’ve got to lift yourself up to a higher level to realize how to really handle these problems, not try and solve them by react, react. So, so much about that.

But this is where compassion comes into this, that rather than fighting these guys, we’ve got to understand that they may be here because they’re trying to solve a problem, and they’re trying to solve a problem in a way that might not be good for their karma, and might not be good for us physically.

Now, you asked me who’s running this show. It’s certainly very real for me that there are Reptilian entities who are operating behind, or operating within, senior figures who are influential in this whole chess game that is modern geopolitics; and also in the alternative media world as well.

If you’ve got Reptilians who are smart enough to take over a human body, in whatever metaphorical way you can imagine – they might stand behind them in another dimension; they might be like what is called a walk-in, where they say: Okay, out of here, I’m taking over this body now -- and they look like a human, but who they were before that was something completely different. This can happen at any stage of one’s life; you don’t have to be born in here.

That may happen with politicians, it may happen with bankers, it might happen with industrialists, it might happen with UFO researchers. In theory, if we don’t watch our backs, it could happen to you and me. These are the kind of things which, if you regard these beings as having the ability and the strategic capability to figure out: Okay, what position should we occupy on this chessboard? Then they are going to be occupying positions and they’re going to be occupying people. It’s absolutely logical that if they could do that, they would do that.

And not only are the bad guys occupying positions and occupying people, the good guys are occupying positions and occupying people. Who do you think we are? Now, before, I was saying how I was in Tibet for a long time. I think I’ve been on this planet for… I mean, I haven’t got any memories earlier than about 2,000 years ago, but maybe I just came in a little bit early, just to get used to it. If I came here to planet Earth from somewhere else, hanging out in Tibet to get the hang of it is actually a pretty nice place to do one’s induction, before you really start to get involved in it.

I don’t know for sure, but I know that some people have come straight in here; this is their first lifetime. I’ve talked to them.

I had another girlfriend, this is a story I haven’t told publicly, I won’t give her name, because she could easily watch this. I had another girlfriend who had come here from the Pleiades two lifetimes ago – not last lifetime. In other words, this lifetime is her second human lifetime. The previous lifetime, just like us, she had a really, really tough time. She had a very, very tough time. Because if you come here from anywhere, it’s tough. This is a tough planet! [laughs] It’s not easy to be here.

Especially if you’re used to other ways of operating, other levels of technology, other abilities that one might have that you have to give up when you’re here because things don’t work that way, with human bodies and human brains, because the brain is the interface.

The brain’s got something to do with telepathy, even if it’s a fundamental spiritual ability. Hardware and software work together. You can have advanced software, but if the hardware’s not right, the software won’t work. So, that’s got something to do with it.

Now, this is all part of your question about who’s running the planet. Behind the scenes here there is an invisible game going on – I won’t use the word “war”. There are good aliens and there are bad aliens, and they’re very, very probably occupying human conditions and playing things out. And they’re probably hunting each other.

When Bob Dean said that there are human-looking aliens walking the halls of the Pentagon, and some of them are being hunted... which is what we were told by our source who we call John Robie, who is a character in a movie [Ed note: To Catch a Thief], because we like calling our pseudonyms characters in movies – he was Tony Dodd, who has now passed on. He was a very well known British UFO researcher, very widely respected, a wonderful man. I never met him personally.

He communicated to us quite intensely. He said these guys are being hunted down. What he never told us, specifically – probably because he never knew – is, is it the good guys who are being hunted down by the bad guys, or the bad guys who are being hunted down by the good guys? You see?

FC: The bad guys are being hunted down by the good guys?

BR: Or the other way around.

FC: Oh…

BR: Or possibly both, you know. Who knows what’s going on out there? It’s just the idea that when Tony Dodd reported during our site as John Robie, and confirmed by Bob Dean, saying that there is one race – this is pretty much what Bob Dean said from memory – he said that there is one race which he has been told about that looks exactly like us. You wouldn’t notice them if they stepped next to you in the train. You’d never notice them if you met them at a party. You’d never notice them if you were working for them or with them, or had them working for you, or if they applied for a job in military intelligence. You wouldn’t notice... they’re just human!

And, bridging slightly over that, this is something that ‘Henry Deacon’ (Arthur Neumann) said over and over again. He said: They’re humans! There’re people out there. They’re just like us. Some of them look a little bit different, some of them have slightly different skin, some of them are big, some of them are small, some of them have got different-shaped eyes.

But, hell, we have that on Planet Earth as well! Why do you think we all look so different? It’s because we’ve got genetic components from all these other different races and they’re all slightly different. But fundamentally, maybe with the odd exception, you know, they’ve all got two arms, two legs, a head, two ears, two eyes, a nose and a mouth, and a brain that’s up here, and they’ve got their own chakra system and they’ve got their own biology.

But they’re pretty much human. It seems to be the template, for this Galaxy at least, maybe with one or two exceptions. And if some of those humans are so similar to us that you couldn’t tell the difference, I’m sure they’re here. They’re probably very brave volunteers doing their own thing, and if any one of those is watching this video, come contact us, because we’d like to interview you! [laughs]

FC: I personally want to interview a Reptilian... if they can speak.

BR: Ahhh, yes, you’d probably have to have an intermediary to pick up their telepathic contact. One of the things, going back to... now, this whole thing isn’t going in a straight line, but what Clay and Shawn Pickering told us was that the Disclosure program, which they have been told about by their US Navy source in great detail, concerns two extraterrestrial races. They didn’t know about any of the others. They said nobody knows what the Grays are doing. They’re doing their own thing. ‘Henry Deacon’ told us that. He said: We don’t know what those guys are doing. They’re doing their own thing. Quite interesting.

He [Clay and Shawn Pickering’s source] talked about a Reptilian race who are subservient to another race, which is a silicon-based life form that is not humanoid. That it’s got tremendous abilities, but is so alien in every sense of the word that it’s really hard to understand what it is that they want, how they operate, anything about them at all, because it’s a totally different paradigm.

They’re just crystals. They’re crystals! Basically, they’re crystals that can apparently move and levitate and communicate telepathically, and they can change their shape, because just like you’d imagine a big clever crystal would, it just grows something outside of it, which is another part of the crystal.

I don’t know much about this, and it’s a very wild story, and they don’t like the environment of planet Earth because it doesn’t suit their bodies very well. And so this is a novelty in terms of UFO researchers, in terms of UFO research. And they’ve had a bit of a tough time with their story because everyone says: Oh, this is crazy; this is nonsense. So they don’t have many people who are believing them.

But their source, their US Navy source, is part of a team of six who has been surgically modified, which apparently is quite a traumatic process, been surgically modified to be able to communicate with these beings, and he’s had deep interaction with them.

But one of the reasons why there are debates about whether to trust them [meaning these crystalline ETs] or not is because they don’t answer many questions, and they don’t reveal many facts. But people… but everyone just feels wonderful when they’re in their presence and they seem to be benevolent, but they’re also withholding a lot of information.

But they’re alien! How do you figure this out? Everyone’s still trying to work it out. Nobody knows. There’s more about this in this big interview, a four-hour interview [with Clay and Shawn Pickering].

The race that’s subservient to them is a Reptilian race. He said that their source believes that they suffered an Extinction Level Event; they lost their planet. He says – this is their source; when I say “he” I’m referring to their source; we haven’t met them directly, we’ve been invited to meet them, we haven’t met them – he says that the Reptilians, all they want to do is to walk around.

All they want to do is to walk around. They spend their life in big spaceships. They don’t have a planet... apparently. It fits; it sort of fits.

What do they look like? He said imagine a miniature T-Rex: big teeth, a tail, and scales. They weigh 500 kilograms (1,000 pounds), two and a half meters tall (eight feet high). They’re very, very strong. They are a warrior race. They’re highly intelligent. They’re very ruthless.

Another source of ours has described these beings as: imagine the instincts and the ethical level of responsibility of a crocodile, but with very high intelligence. They don’t think the way that humans do.

Once again going back to David Icke, David Icke was saying just a couple of days ago, he also was referring to these beings as they, in his terminology: they operate through mind, they operate through a program, they will do whatever is expedient, they will do whatever is practical, they will do whatever is in their own interests, and they don’t have any empathy, they don’t have any sympathy.

It sort of fits that behind all of that – and this is where we go back to what Ruth was saying, which is absolutely true – behind all of that, you’ve got some form of cycle of abuse that has made them into what they… These are tough kids on the block. We have children like that too, almost. Almost. Some of them. You don’t want to come near them on a dark night, you’d be better off with a crocodile. Some of them.

But behind them, they’ve experienced something that has made them into that. They’ve had a tough time, and this is their response. They’re trying to survive in the world that they think is unsympathetic to them. This is just their response. They’re trying to solve their own problem by being in a certain way. Maybe.

These Reptilian characters, he says that the difference between them and a T-Rex is that... if you remember what a T-Rex looks like, they’ve got these little vestigial arms; these guys have got longer arms with very dexterous fingers. So they’re tool-makers, you see.

If you think of the evolution of a biological species, you’ve got to go through the tool-making phase. This is why dolphins haven’t evolved high technology, because they can’t make tools. They’ve got no fingers, they’ve got no hands. All they can do is make noises and play complicated games and swim around in the sea. They’ll never be an industrial race, or an electronic race, because you’ve got to go through that phase by making things.

And they have been through this phase of making things. They’re highly intelligent; they’re highly able, post-industrial. They have space flight, they have the whole thing.

And what I do not know is whether these are the same as the Anunnaki. What we do know about the Anunnaki… And I had a fascinating conversation with David Icke about this. I keep on talking about David Icke because he’s a reference point that many people watching this video will recognize and be familiar with, and I had a fascinating conversation with David. I was telling him all that we heard about the Reptilians and the Anunnaki, and he was telling us, and it was absolutely matching totally.

One of the characteristics is that when they are in contact, in physical contact, they will not reveal what they look like. They regard their appearance in a ritualistic way, or a way that has become ritualistic, as sacred. It’s part of their custom and ritual and fixed way of operating that you cannot look at their face, or that we cannot look, or humans can’t look on their face. It’s not done.

And ‘Henry Deacon’ (Arthur Neumann), who has encountered these characters physically, in the flesh – he never saw their faces because they’re all wearing cloaks and headdresses and funny stuff like that... this is what they do. They’re very ceremonial. It’s an ancient culture which has ritual deeply engrained in everything which they do. Why not? They can do anything they like. They’re aliens.

And when David Icke was describing how the ritual, and the status, and the sense of axiomatic importance that is ascribed to royalty, “the Divine Right of Kings” and all the rest of it, this all comes from the Anunnaki. This is how they regard themselves.

And when you meet them, it’s like meeting a king, or like meeting a queen. You’ve got to talk in a certain way, you’ve got to avert your eyes, you’ve got to hold your hands in a certain way, you’ve got to approach them in a certain way. You’ve got to do everything in a certain way. Otherwise, our source said... I don’t think it was a joke; he said: If you don’t do it right, you end up on their dinner plate.

[laughs] It’s like there’s a certain way that you go about all of this. You’ve got to defer to them, you’ve got to, you know… But what’s really, really interesting is that if this is the same group as Clay and Shawn Pickering are talking about, and they describe these guys in great detail – you know, you can see them when they’re describing them; they describe them vividly – they are subservient to this silicon-based life form. And the hypothesis is that the silicon-based life form rescued them when they destroyed their planet. So, somehow they’re operating symbiotically.

Everything that I said here raises a huge number of questions, and I don’t have the answers to them. I don’t know whether these Reptilians are shape-shifters.

The silicon-based race, apparently they can shape-shift, but they don’t shape-shift physically; they affect the perception in the brains or the minds of the people watching. So when this guy, when this source, the first time that he came across one of these things, if I remember rightly, he was with a group of people in a room, and he was announcing that he was going to have an important meeting.

And he went to the middle of these people in this room and he was briefed by a senior military officer for five minutes, until the military officer then became this big crystal... because it wasn’t a military officer at all! They perceived a military officer.

And what was really interesting is that all of those people in that group saw something slightly different because this was a mental perception. And then they were completely confused by this. They all went off into another room and compared: Well, this is what I saw. What did you see? Well, he was wearing brown shoes. No, he wasn’t, he was wearing black shoes. You know... He was two meters tall. No, he wasn’t, he was quite short. You know...

But they [the men] saw a person. And the rest of it was something to do with what they were sort of expecting. It was an individual response to something that they were being evoked to see, or evoked to sense and hear. But they [the silicon life form] can only maintain it for about five minutes, then they collapse into their real state, which is a physical state.

The question immediately to their source was: Well, is this some kind of a hologram or an illusion, or a…?

And: No, it’s absolutely physical. They’re a rock. They’re a rock in a suit.

You know. It’s a really weird thing. He said: They’re a rock! You know. [laughing] He couldn’t… So it’s a big crystal thing. It’s straight out of some bad science fiction movie. It’s not what you expect. But they have the capacity to influence how they’re perceived for short periods of time. Fascinating stuff. Absolutely fascinating.

And the Reptilians, if it’s the same group of Reptilians, are subservient to them. The silicon-based groups don’t seem to hang around on planet Earth; they’re out there somewhere.

And nobody knows where they’re from. This is another problem. They’re not answering the question where they’re from. I need to listen to the interview again, but I think the response is something like: You wouldn’t understand. Which isn’t very helpful. It may be true, but it’s still not helpful.

And there may be different branches of the Reptilians, but the Reptilians are a theme. They are a theme. They’re coming up over and over again. There are people who’ve encountered them, there are people who’ve been contacted by them, there are people who’ve had experiences like Barbara Lamb had, there are the shape-shifting experiences.

In our most recent interview with Jordan Maxwell, bless him, he came out saying: David Icke should not be persecuted for what people perceive as being his “crazy ideas.” He is absolutely right in what he says. I’ve had the same reports. They’re separate reports.

And then he told this incredible story about this girl who had been left alone in the house in an American military base – I mean, this is straight out of Hitchcock, or something worse – you know, looking in the mirror; behind, there’s this Reptilian being who steps out of the closet and starts gliding across the carpet towards her!

And this is a twelve-year-old... I think it is a young daughter of an American military officer, with guards around the house because this guy knew that there was some kind of a threat, but didn’t know what the threat was. And this thing came from a closet! Left big scratch marks on the door, straight out of a bad movie, and then disappeared. This girl was completely freaked out, and Jordan got this story from the girl, who is now a woman, telling this.

This happened on an American military base. These things happen all time, they can’t control it. Just stepping into a dimensional portal, they can control where they appear. This is why they appear in cupboards and funny places like this, otherwise they’d pop in the middle of a cocktail party. That doesn’t work. So, you know. Or in the middle of a street, or in the middle of a shopping mall. No, they always appear in cupboards and things. Or little corners, or basements, or, you know. They can control where they appear, when they do appear.

And the rest of the time they’re here manipulating one of the chess pieces on this chess board, which is a prominent figure whose role it is to influence other people. So it’s a perfect strategy. This is why some of them are politicians, this is why some of them are industrialists, they’re probably in the media and they’re probably in UFO research.

If I was a Reptilian with an agenda like that, that’s exactly the pieces that I would occupy. It makes perfect sense, and it makes for a great movie.

FC: Yes, doesn’t it.

BR: Okay.

FC: Tell me, are they actually eating the children?

BR: Some people say so. In Bill Deagle’s 2006 Granada Forum lecture, there’s a part where he says: I could tell you what they do, but I’m not going to because I would fall apart. Bill Deagle is a good man. He couldn’t talk about what he knew. He couldn’t talk about what he knew. He was in the middle of a presentation.

‘Henry Deacon’ (Arthur Neumann) told us that in his place of work, in his classified place of work, we know where that was, he attended a briefing all about this subject, and he walked out of the briefing because he couldn’t stomach it. He told us he was amazed at two things: one of them, he was amazed at how everyone was just sitting there listening to this and taking notes. And he was also amazed that nobody stopped him from walking out.

FC: What did they tell him?

BR: He was hinting heavily. Like many insiders who’ve got something important to say, he will talk indirectly about it. And the way that he alerted us to this story was, we were sitting in a restaurant with him, talking about all of this stuff... we’ve spent hours and hours and hours and hours and hours with him, met him on many, many occasions, and we’d often meet him for dinner. And he was making a reference to a short story, a short science fiction story which I read many years ago, but I can’t remember if it was by Philip K. Dick or if it was by Heinlein, or whoever it was, but the title of the story was To Serve Man. [Ed note: the author was Damon Knight.]

This is the story. And it was a little bit of a silly short story, and most science fiction short stories are about 12 pages long, and they’re quite fun and they’ve got a little punch line, and you’ve got maybe 20 of them in a book. And this story was called To Serve Man.

And the theme was these aliens had appeared, and it had been discovered that, in some document that somebody had seen with them, that there was this document that said, “To Serve Man”.

And people were saying: Oh, this is great -- they’ve come here to serve us. They’ve come here to, you know, to help us, to assist us. And it actually turned out that what it really meant; they were going to serve us up on a plate. It’s actually a very bad play on words.

And ‘Henry’ (Arthur) was making pointed references to this as he looked in the menu of this meal, and I didn’t get it, and Kerry didn’t get it. We didn’t really get what he was talking about. And he kept on make… He was becoming more and more pointed, and more and more pointed, until he virtually had to spell it out for us. When he realized that we’d understood that there were at least some of these aliens who are eating people, then he said: Okay, I don’t need to talk about that anymore.

And it seems to be a theme. And one of the problems in this whole research area is that – and it’s also the problem with the president of any country going out towards the press and saying: Oh, yeah, Roswell was real. – it’s like after half an hour, or an hour, or two hours, or two days or two weeks, someone then starts asking the question: Well, we’ve heard about this. Is this true? You see. And it goes to unsavory places. It goes to places that you don’t want to go.

Our research takes us to these places. Our research takes us to what the Illuminati are doing, to what’s happening to the Vatican, to what the Reptilians are doing, to extremely nasty places where I never… I don’t want to go to those places. It doesn’t feel like fun anymore, really, when you’re looking at all this stuff. You think: Oh, God, I don’t want to deal with this stuff! It’s not nice!

But if one is going to be a really, really honest researcher, you’ve got to follow the data trail. And this is what David Icke does, this is what Bill Deagle does, it’s not what everybody does. Some people say: Nah, I’m not going to go there. I’m only going to talk about nice aliens. Or: I’m only going to talk about Earth changes -- I’m not going to talk about aliens at all. Or: I’m only going to talk about what the politicians are doing, or what the economy is doing.

But if you look at it from a high enough place, you see that all of these things are interconnected, even the nasty stuff. And this is where, again, when you go back to David’s opening statement, and Ruth’s opening statement, if you hold that line, that we are infinitely capable, infinitely wonderful, infinitely beautiful spiritual beings, and all else is illusion, drama, and play, maya, then you can handle it. It’s like: Oh, okay [snaps fingers], you know, it doesn’t feel very nice but [snaps fingers] it’s just one of those things in a dream that just feels a bit, yuck, you know, and then you move on.

It’s the only real way to handle it. How you communicate about it to people who don’t have that viewpoint, I don’t know.

FC: Do you ever come across disinformationists when you’re interviewing people? People who try to feed you deliberate disinformation? How do you suss them out, and how do you vet your witnesses?

BR: Hmm. What a question. I don’t believe, I don’t believe – I’m choosing my words carefully here – I don’t believe that there has been very much deliberate disinformation in any of our interviews.

And I’ll qualify that: that doesn’t mean that everything that we are reporting, we believe is correct. Some of it has to be wrong, because you’ve got people contradicting each other. You’ve got Dan Burisch saying that there are only three races visiting us, and Clifford Stone saying there are 57 and probably more. Someone’s got to be wrong.

But they both believe that they’re right. They both really do believe that they’re right. And one thing I want to say here about Dan Burisch is he believes everything that he’s told us. He’s not lying to us. He believes it, but that doesn’t mean that it’s true.

As Richard Hoagland said very graphically in his interview to us and to other people: The lie is different at every level. And why would we believe that disinformation doesn’t also work on the inside?

One of the things that they do, and I learned this a long time ago, is that... Let me think of an example. I’m actually going back to the Serpo story, because this is where I had some people who first helped me to understand this. For example, if there’s one source who said: Twelve people went on this mission; and then another source, on the inside, says: Ten people went on this mission; another source says: Six people went on this mission, and these are informal briefings, it’s actually not very important, it’s just a little bit of information.

Then if any of that information leaks out, they know where it came from. If it’s the story where six people went on the mission that then leaks out onto the Internet, then they know that it was the guy who was told that it was six who’s responsible for the leak, because it went down his channel, you see.

And they do this with documents too. If you ask Bob and Ryan Wood from Majestic Documents, they’ll tell you that they do this with documents. They deliberately put spelling mistakes and typos into official documents; and there’ll be different typos and different spelling mistakes in different documents given to different people, so that when they leak, they know where it came from. So clever, so simple. You see, they do this on purpose. They do this on purpose. [Ed note: This process of differentiating the docs is called “salting” the docs; it is a widespread practice in the intelligence community.]

And so there are different levels of that. There are other reasons for disinforming people, of course, on the inside, so that they get confused. If someone’s confused, they’re easier to control. They do it with us and they do it with themselves, at junior levels. There are huge numbers of different levels here. And the guys at the top are trying to control the people at the bottom, and to keep them running around in different directions.

One of the things that Bill Deagle tells, and has been saying ever since his 2006 Granada Forum lecture that he started to get the big picture sorted out because he was a doctor working, actually taking care of people physically, in many of these classified locations. Someone’s got to take care of them. He was the doctor. He was on the inside working there, and he would talk to somebody who didn’t know what was happening in the room next door to him in this classified establishment. But the guy who was in the room next door to him had been the previous guy who Deagle had seen, his previous medical appointment, and had told him his story.

So Deagle was getting all of these components from all of these people he was talking to -- because everyone talks to their doctor. And so he was able to say to the guy here: Ah, you don’t know what’s happening in the room next door to you? I just spoke to him yesterday. This is what he said.

And so Deagle was starting to get the big picture here. And this is just a little anecdote about how compartmentalized things are.

Long before Camelot, in the year 2000 -- this is a fascinating story which I’ve never made public -- long before Camelot; I was on holiday in Thailand. I’ve been to Thailand a number of times; I’ve got some friends over there, and I met a Black Ops guy. Actually there are quite a few of these guys who hang out there. This is where they go when they’re on the run, or when they’re trying to hide, or when they’re trying to pretend the rest of the world doesn’t exist.

This guy had worked for Bell Labs. Fascinating story. I realized that he was an unusual guy because he was talking to me like an advanced Ph.D.--level physicist. I didn’t know anything about him at all.

But I finally asked him: Well, where did you go to college? What did you used to do?

And then he said: Come with me. And we walked along the beach.

And he said: I never went to college.

And I found that almost impossible to believe.

He said: For my high school science project, I was with a couple of other guys… and I wish I could remember exactly what he told me. He made some kind of a vacuum plasma-powered laser gun, or something. You know, this was his high school physics project. It’s like something out of these silly Disney movies. He was 17 years old. He was a kid. He made this thing that was a classified ‘Star Wars’ weapon, and he made this incredible device.

The next thing he knew [knock-knock-knock...Bill raps on table], he got a knock on the door from the NSA saying: You’re a smart kid, we can take care of you, sign here. We’ll give you lots of money and we’ll give you anything you want. We’ll take care of your education.

He’s a 17 year old kid. Smart kid.

He said: Yeah, sure!

This is what happened to Dan Burisch, by the way. Same story. Almost.

And so they put him to work in Bell Labs, and they said to him: We’ll teach you anything you want. You’ve got a budget of anything you want. We want you just to learn stuff, get smart, and invent stuff. Science kid’s dream.

But what they do with people in Bell Labs – this is the point of this story – he said that when you’re going through to your place of work, they put special goggles on you which blur everything around you, so that all you can see is this immediate area around you to make sure that you don’t trip over something or bump into a door and so that you can see the doorknob when you’re opening it.

The rest of the stuff you can’t see, it’s a blur. So when you’re walking through these other offices and laboratories, you can’t see what’s going on. You can’t see what’s written on the wall, you can’t see who’s there, you can’t see what they’re doing, but you can make it through to get to the door. And all of these guys have got these goggles on when they’re moving, until they get to their place and then they take their goggles off. And then it’s like, right [snaps fingers] you’re in your place.

And just as Dan Burisch described in S-4, there are lines painted on the floor which you can also see, so you go along these corridors like a tram, and if you wander off, then all the bells start ringing because you’ve got a gadget attached to your ankle, and the next thing you know, you’re surrounded by security guards because you’ve gone off your tram lines. And if you really go off the tram lines and keep on going off the tram lines, they’re going to shoot you straight away, because they know that something’s badly wrong. That kind of stuff.

He told us that this is the environment they’re working in, and the reason why he quit, because he didn’t want to work in a place like that. You’re under total intimidation all the time... even though he got to play with antigravity devices and everything else, you know. After a while it was no fun. Very, very interesting story.

I actually went back there to try and find him and I couldn’t locate him anymore. He’d gone off somewhere else. He’d quit. He’s one of these guys who quit, because a lot of these Black Ops guys quit... they really suffer. There’s another story I never told anybody.

You see, if these things come to you, if you’re doing a job, this information comes at you, and sometimes it comes really early and you don’t know what to do with it.

I was 18 years old, hitchhiking in northern Canada... this is in northern British Columbia; it’s my first university vacation. I was 18 years old and I had a 200-mile ride with a scientist who talked to me, as an anonymous hitchhiker. I never knew his name, he never knew my name. He talked to me; he poured his heart out for 200 miles, because he was doing research about implanting chips in people’s brains. This was in 1972.... working for the Canadian military. He was a troubled man; he didn’t know what to do.

I can’t remember much of it -- I was only 18; I was a kid! I didn’t know what was going on! I thought: Wow, this guy is telling me about all this stuff! Is he crazy or what? And I listened very hard and all I could remember after 200 miles was that he was telling me about the experiments he was being made to do, to put chips into peoples’ brains to control their behavior

Many years later it’s like: Okay, now I remember… okay, now this fits with this, and this fits with this, this fits with this. But these guys are troubled, you see. They’re really, really troubled.

What Peterson said to us, Pete Peterson, bless him, he’s a good man. They’re all good men, who we’ve spoken to... and this is all the context of your question. Peterson said that he was talking to us because he didn’t like the feeling of – this is an exact quote: He didn’t like the feeling of having to take three baths a day to avoid the feeling of being covered in excrement.

Once someone gets a little further on in their lives... Petersen’s over 70 now. He’s a lovely man, and he’s done stuff. They’ve all done stuff that they have to live with.

Jake Simpson – I’m sure this is okay to say this. He’s a wonderful man too; he’s a really good friend of ours. They do all of this psychological profiling, and they pass tests and, you know, they get to go on certain missions and so on and so forth. He said that there was a particular test that he failed which then confined his military intelligence history at one point. The test that he failed... it was a psychological profiling test, it wasn’t an actual test, but they determined that he would be unable to kill a child.

FC: Oh, my goodness.

BR: And therefore there were certain missions that he didn’t go on, you know. There’re certain things that he wasn’t… I mean, bless him because he couldn’t kill a child, but it means that in this whole world that we’re inhabiting of espionage, military counter… in this whole thing, these people who often get… they’re good people and they go into these programs. They don’t know; they’re not told everything at the beginning. They don’t know what they’re being called upon to do.

‘Henry Deacon’ (Arthur Neumann) told us… You see, there’s stuff there that he hasn’t told. There’s stuff there that he can’t talk about, because he can’t bring himself to talk about it, and we don’t know what it is because he’s never told us!

There are Mars veterans just like there are Vietnam veterans. Not because there’s a fight, just because people… they do a tour of duty on Mars. They spend some time working on a project, and they go to Mars and come back, and go to Mars and come back, and all of this kind of stuff. And then they get moved on to another project, maybe. It’s my term I’m using: “a Mars veteran”.

He said that later on, after he did all this stuff with Mars, he was working with a guy in a small classified project within NOAA; the National Oceanic and Atmospherics Administration. It’s like NASA, but it’s NOAA. It’s a public body, but they have classified projects too. That’s when he told us that he knew about “the second sun” that was coming in. He encountered that in NOAA. They’re just tracking it. I don’t know if it’s a big problem or not, but it’s out there somewhere, he said. He didn’t really know much about it. He said they talked about it sometimes.

And there was this other guy who worked there who, by coincidence, happened to be a Mars veteran. He’d also done his stuff on Mars. And ‘Henry’ (Arthur) said these two men would go into their office, they would lock the door, and they would weep together. He never told us why. He couldn’t say. I don’t know why! I don’t know why! Kerry and I have been guessing for two years. We have no idea! We have no idea.

And it might not matter, and we never pressed ‘Henry’ on that. There are places which he, you know, you ask him questions and they’d bounce off. He changes the subject, or doesn’t want to respond. But anyone who’s been in these programs, they have suffered. They’re suffering people.

Another story that ‘Henry’ told us, he was involved in the 9/11 operation that morning. We publicized that. But it’s just a good... it’s just an interesting story to tell, because as an electronics specialist, one of the jobs that he had was to set up the control system which resulted in those two planes being flown into the Twin Towers – control of that model aircraft from thousands of miles away. He set up the electronics for that. He told us all about it.

But, as most people do in these projects, he didn’t know what he was working on. He was just working on a control system. He didn’t know what it was going to be used for. They didn’t tell him. Why should they? “Need to know.”

But on the morning before all of that happened on the 11th of September, he and the people in his place of work were given a briefing. And the essence of the briefing was: On television today you will see a whole bunch of stuff that’s going to be very dramatic, but don’t worry about it because it’s just one of our projects.

And he said one of the things that shocked him – and it’s a little bit like that other story he told about this briefing that he went into – he said the thing that amazed him was that everyone else said: Okay, and just went back to work.

And he was thinking: Oh, my God, what are we working on? It’s going to result in the deaths of thousands of people and the destruction of these two buildings, and God knows what!

And then he had a few hours in which he realized that he had the capability to sabotage it. Because he was working with the control system, he could easily put something in the software that would make those planes miss – and he didn’t do it. And he lives with that. He lives with the fact that he could have averted 9/11. He could have had those planes drive into the Hudson, and they didn’t do it. And he has to live with that.

You and I, and everyone else watching this, they cannot imagine what it’s like being somebody who is carrying that in their soul. And that’s why they talk, you see. That’s why they talk. They talk because they are trying to purge their souls. They’re trying to atone for what they feel they’ve done. And on the inside there’s no escape.

This is why we’re protected. This is why you may be protected as well, or may come to be protected as you come and do more and more work, because some of these guys, there’s nothing they can say on the inside. They can’t speak out. They can’t go and ring up their local newspaper and spill their story, or call you or call me. They can’t do this stuff, because if they move, then that’s the end of them. Or the end of their children. Or the end of something. It’s not smart for them to do that.

So what they do, very quietly, is they will do something very, very indirectly that supports you and me continuing to do the story. They’re rooting for us, you see, they’re rooting for us. There are a lot of people that are rooting for us. We know that. And we’ve been told that by a number of people -- the “White Hats” on the inside. They’re doing everything that they can do to help you and me, and a lot of other people out there, do our work.

Now, then you get the whole chess game being played, because knowing that this is happening, then of course this disinformation will come trickling down.

So I use this just as an example because it comes to mind. After we met with Peterson for many, many hours, and he told us a whole bunch of unbelievable things, some of which weren’t on the video, after that we’ve had a number of phone conversations with him. And then in some of those phone conversations – I won’t go into any detail here at all – in some of those phone conversations, he said: I’ve just heard this from one of my mates. I’ve just heard this from one of my friends on the inside.

Now, we don’t know whether to believe that or not, not because he is necessarily providing us with any disinformation, but because then he becomes a problem to them. But at the same time, they’re trying to… I mean, one has to think in a military way. You have to think like a spook. You have to think like you’re on the other side of the chess board trying to figure out what to do.

They know that he’s still in contact with us. They’re not going to shoot him in the head, because then that confirms everything he’s ever told us, so that’s the last thing they do. But what they do is they see if they can twist it round. And then they twist it round by offering him a little bit of a tidbit of information, hoping that he’ll believe it, and hoping that he’ll tell us, and hoping that we’ll believe it, and hoping that then we say it.

So then we have to use some kind of a filter. And some people, going back to the Clay and Shawn Pickering story, some people in the UFO community have not touched that because they feel they can’t correlate this information about the silicon-based life form to anything else that they’ve ever heard. They’re worried that this might be a very complex, very subtle, very clever disinformation ploy to get people fighting in the UFO community.

It happens all the time, and they’ll use credible people. They’ll use people who believe the story, because a source who believes what he’s saying is going to be much more valuable than somebody who’s been ordered to lie, you see.

Somebody who believes what he’s saying is going to be really credible, and they’re going to say: Well, I really believe this information, and I’ve got these documents, and I spoke with this person, and I also heard this from another person, and this is what I really think is happening. And everything they say is true.

And they’re absolutely credible. They look you in the eye. You can feel they’re good people, you can feel they’re being honest, and you still don’t know whether the information is true. This is the problem. Because we don’t know the provenance.

And so what we do, I mean, all we can do, if somebody tells us something, we say: Right. How do you know this? Who told you? How sure are you? Is it single source? Did you hear this from two different people? How long ago did you hear it? What happened just before you were told that?

We’re trying to get the lie of the land, and what I try and do personally, if I can, is when I’m writing a report I always say, I always put little caveats in this, and I’m always wanting like to take every opportunity to clarify – both Kerry and I do this: That this is what we were told. The person who told us, we believe that he believed it. Maybe it’s not true.

And this loops right back to this thing about the 27th of November. There are all kinds of caveats there, see. But the problem is – and this is the problem that we have in this job that we’re doing – because even though we put the caveats there, and Peterson put the caveats there, and we’re thinking: Well, you know, I don’t know about this, but this is what he said, and it would be cool if it were true… Then it gets copied and copied, and it gets emailed, and it gets on someone else’s blog, and then someone else states it on a radio show, and so on and so forth, and the next thing you know it’s like: This is what Project Camelot is saying, and then on the 28th of November, we’ll be liars.

And we’re not. We’re just being reporters. But we’re trying to be reporters with as much responsibility as we can. We’re not Fox News, that says: We report, you decide. You know, we’re not… We’re not removing ourselves from any responsibility here. But at the same time, we’re trying to put together what we feel is credible information. We can kind of see patterns. We’re trying to say to people: We think we see this pattern, but maybe you see a different pattern. But let’s check it all out.

We’re learning all the time. We know that some of our information is not correct, because it can’t be, because we get people contradicting each other. We do feel that between 80 and 90 percent of our information is accurate. I used to say 95 percent; I think it’s probably between 80 and 90. That’s quite a heavy load of good information.

We’re on the lookout for people who feed us crazy stuff. People send us crazy stuff by e-mail all the time. That’s because it’s easy for a kid to write a crazy story and say: Hey, I’m a whistleblower.

Sometimes you can kind of tell immediately. You know, when somebody says they’re a Ph.D. scientist and they can’t even spell, you know, then it’s like: Okay, there’s something wrong here.

And at the same time, sometimes you pick up one of these little threads, and we do use our intuition, for what it’s worth. Kerry and I both use our intuition. When we’re both thinking: There’s something important here, there’s something important here, then we tend to follow it. And then we’ll invest some of our time in checking it out.

It’s very important not to frontload people, meaning, if somebody says – this is an invented story, an invented example. If somebody wrote to us and says: I was at a Mars base... Anyone can say that.

Then rather than saying: Oh, this is what ‘Henry Deacon’ told us. Is this true? You see. Then the kid in the basement playing the joke says: Yes, it is. You see. That’s not a very good question to ask. You’ve got to ask open questions. You’ve got to say: What’s it like? What did you see? You don’t ask them any questions to confirm anything at all, because then all they’re going to do is say yes. And so on and so forth.

Sometimes we come across information that we just don’t buy at all, and there are some people in the research community that we just don’t... we just don’t buy their information; there’s something wrong with it.

Now, we may be wrong in some of that information. We may have bought some information that doesn’t fit. We’ve got a lot of information about Dan Burisch, for example. People say: He’s a liar, he’s crazy, you know, he’s this, he’s that.

He’s not a liar and he’s not crazy. His information isn’t all correct, I’m certain about that.

But he’s a good-hearted guy. He’s heavily controlled. He’s now been turned against us, and that’s because we trod on someone’s toes after the Zurich conference. We don’t know what we did to tread on those toes, but Dan Burisch is now corralled by a bunch of people who regard us as some kind of an enemy. And we are not an enemy. We will continue to present his information with as much intellectual honesty as we can do.

It’s a tough battlefield. You win friends, you lose friends; you become disconnected from people. But we do think that we know who’s good-hearted and who’s not good-hearted. We think we can kind of tell that, probably as you can.

And one of the things we were told... and this makes our lives more difficult, but this is one of the things that also keeps us alive. We were told by a very friendly insider source, he said: Listen, he said, don’t try and prove anything. Never try and prove anything.

And actually at that time it just didn’t seem… because we weren’t trying to prove anything anyway. We don’t have any documents. We don’t have an alien in the cupboard that we can wheel out in front of the camera, saying: Here look at this. We don’t have anything like that. We don’t have convincing photographs. We don’t have affidavits from anybody. We don’t have anything.

All we have is stories, and we’re trying to paint a picture. We’re trying to put this mosaic together so people can see for themselves, so that people can use this to correlate their own experience.

But there’s a very subtle point here because some people say: You can’t prove anything you’re saying! You’re coming up with all this stuff and there’s not one document, not one photograph, not one affidavit, nothing. You can’t prove a thing!

And besides the fact that we don’t have that stuff, we’re not withholding it or anything, but this is the fuse in the circuit that enables us to continue to work.

Actually, it was Hal Puthoff, Dr. Hal Puthoff, the very famous physicist, and the guy who ran the remote viewing program at SRI – I regard him as a friend, I met him for a couple of days, a wonderful man. And he was the first person who said, he said: Look, it’s very important, it’s important for the authorities to maintain plausible deniability.

He said they want this information to come out, but it’s got a built-in shock-absorber in the system; that they want all these stories about ETs and these stories about abductions and these stories about military hardware and these stories about what’s… they want this stuff to be slowly percolating into the popular culture, but without any proof at all.

Because this means that the people whose reality would be threatened, seriously, if there was a photograph of an alien, or a conclusive document with Kennedy’s signature, saying: I was going to do this, signed, date, the day before he was killed or something, then you get people reacting to this in shock, jumping out of windows, civil unrest, effect on the economy, blah, blah, blah, destabilizing governments, because suddenly, you’ve got this stuff in people’s face, and they know… And you get... and the religious question, for God’s sake, as it were.

So the plausible deniability is in there all the time because no one is being forced to take anything onboard if they can’t handle it. If they can’t handle it, they just say: This person’s crazy. Bill Ryan’s crazy. Mel’s crazy [Melani from FC]. Alex Jones is crazy. David Icke’s crazy. That’s their shock-absorber, and then they go and live their lives and the world continues in a stable say.

But the people who can take it on board do, and they say: You know what? I feel this is true. I don’t need any proof; I’m just going to think about this now, and it fits with what I heard from this other guy.

And this is why it’s important, and workable, and it’s all working on a drip feed. We’re actually not only protected by the “White Hats”, but we’re useful to the “Black Hats”, because they’ve got a problem.

They’ve got a problem because they’re sitting on all this stuff. It’s got to come out, somehow. They’ve had a program in place for decades now where they’re seeding this information to the popular culture, as early as 1952 or whenever it was, when they made the first version of The Day the Earth Stood Still.

They were trying to tell the world then something about what’s really going on. Ever since then, we’ve had… I mean, it’s like any kid, any teenager who watches movies, you ask them if ETs are real, and they’ll look at you like you’re crazy. Of course they’re real! It’s obvious! They’ve been watching cartoons about it ever since they were four years old; for them it’s part of their reality. They think people who think that it can’t be real are crazy, you see. So it’s working, and this is in the popular culture. They’ve been seeding all this stuff in there.

We’re very, very useful to them. We’re useful to them because we’re helping this process. We were never part of the plan, but that doesn’t mean to say that they’re not opportunistically pleased that we suddenly appeared on the scene. We haven’t been manipulated into doing this.

But it’s part of how this all goes together. If this does solve their problem so that the world is able to take upon Disclosure, and we’re somehow part of their strategy because somebody really does want to make an announcement that tells the truth, I’m actually pleased to be part of that. We’re not knowingly being used, but if it’s the truth, it’s the truth, and so let’s do that.

And in the meantime, of course, they’re reading our emails. They’re probably listening to this conversation, they’re going to watch this video and they’re going to analyze what I know. They’re going to figure out what it is that I’m saying, what it is that I’m not saying, someone’s going to do an assessment to see whether I’m being responsible. They’re continuing to update my profile, they’re going to find out whether I’m reliable, they’re going to see what else they’re going to throw at me, that I might… or us. You know, when I say “me”, I’m only talking about me because Kerry’s not here.

They do this with us all the time. And to the degree that we’re useful to them, we’re going to be allowed to continue. I think we’re doing them a big favor.

They’re interested to know who we’re talking to; they read all our e-mails; they figure out who is waking up. But you can’t avoid that. You can’t avoid that. The only way to avoid that completely is to go into a hole, stop communicating, and go and do something else all your life. And that’s not the plan either, you see. We have to work with them.

So it’s a kind of symbiosis, you see. It’s a symbiosis. It’s a sort of ecosystem, where all of these, you know, where you’ve got the sharks and the mice and the elephants and the lions and the tigers and the snakes -- they all live together in this ecosystem. And that’s kind of what’s happening on planet Earth at the moment. Now, this is a real metaphor, but that ecosystem is kind of evolving in a particular direction.

In the meantime, everything’s kind of finding its own level: the energy’s flowing, the information is flowing, and you get this whole thing played out on this huge, cosmic tapestry which has got something to do with consciousness increasing. The consciousness needs to have information so that it’s got something to process, so people can de-confuse themselves.

The kids who are coming into this world think: What the hell’s going on? Ah, now I know why I’m here. Now I know what the game is. Now I know where these chess pieces are. Now I know what to trust and what not to trust.

And everyone’s figuring this out, and that’s all part of the learning because that’s all part of their responsibility, individual responsibility, to utilize this training course and to learn what they can learn.

And all of this is against the backdrop of a whole bunch of nasty people who may or may not have lost their planet an awful long time ago, who are trying to control us because they’re frightened of the power that we have as infinite consciousness. And as they say, the guy who said this at the beginning of the third Bourne movie: You couldn’t make this stuff up! It’s wonderful! What a...

And it’s like David Icke says: I wouldn’t be anywhere else doing anything else at any other time. It’s a fantastic time to be alive. And it’s just the place to be. This is where the action is. We’re on the cutting edge.

And for anyone watching this that is wondering whether this is the right place to be, I defy you to think of anything else, anywhere else that wasn’t quite so much fun as right now. And the opportunity is to really make a difference.

FC: Lovely. All right. On that note, Bill, thank you very much for your time, and it was absolutely the greatest pleasure to speak to you and get to pick your brains of all the wonderful information you have. I really hope we can sit down and have another chat sometime soon because I’m sure that you’ve got a lot more to tell. So, I thank you for your time.

BR: It’s been a very great pleasure.

FC: Thank you.

Click here for the video interview

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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Support Project Camelot - make a donation: Donations are not tax deductible for U.S. citizens. Thank you for your help. Your generosity enables us to continue our work.	Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy kerry@projectcamelot.org bill@projectcamelot.org