Camelot logo Barcelona Exopolitics Speakers Panel on Disclosure - Part 2 of 2: Interview transcript

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Barcelona Exopolitics Speakers Panel on Disclosure
23 July 2009 - Part 2 of 2

[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.]

KERRY CASSIDY (KC): So, certainly, the White Hats have been behind the scenes working to make this Disclosure even possible. In a sense, our Pete Peterson is a White Hat. His background is ten years as a Marine. Okay?

You wanted to say something, Rob?

ROBERT FLEISCHER (RF): Yes, and then I will give it over to Dr. O’Leary. I just wanted to say... I mean, I’m the only German guy here. You’re mostly Americans.

[comments, crosstalk, responses, laughter]


NICK POPE (NP): British.

RF: Yes, British. I’m the only German guy. I didn’t say I’m the only non... and Australian, of course, and British as well. But this is like the Anglo – how do you say? – the Anglophobic world.

I think that there is a real chance for Disclosure when the Anglo-Saxon banking system goes down. And I think that there is a good chance that this can happen quite fast. I mean, all of the sort of debt of the United States is actually in the hands of the Chinese. And you have emerging states, like, especially, the Chinese, the... ah... you have India, you have Russia and you have Brazil.

So, all of these countries, they deal with the UFO issue in a much more open way than the Americans do, for obvious reasons. I mean, like, in Brazil, they have open UFO files with UFO encounters in the jungle, which is amazing.

In India, they have the flying vimanas and it’s part of their culture, actually, the flying gods that came from heaven and helped to create human culture. So, for them, it’s not such a big issue that there’re extraterrestrials.

And, just recently, I talked to a Chinese master of a spiritual... ah... a spiritual thing. I don’t know how to describe it now in English. Anyway, she told me that she knows that extraterrestrial contact is actually something considered official in China, that there are university professors openly dealing with the content of what the contactees are being told by them, and how it all relates to quantum physics and stuff.

I think that this is actually a very interesting thing, and that this might emerge when we live not in a mono-polar world, but in a multi-polar world, which I hope will happen soon.

Excuse me for that. [laughs] I don’t want to offend you Americans, but…

KC: Absolutely.

RF: …you know, in my sense, I think that’s the best thing we can do, to have a multi-polar world. And, then, I think Disclosure will be much more likely than what we have right now.

[to Brian O’Leary] Now, please...

BRIAN O’LEARY (BO’L): Yeah. I was just going to return to this issue of anger, because I think that’s the largest obstacle to Disclosure, just in general, is how are people reacting, or going to react, to Disclosure...

BOB DEAN (BD): ...having been conned for so many years...

BO’L: …having been conned for so many years. And, to my way of thinking, this is the kind of... anger management might be the right kind of approach for this, especially in America.

And I think you’re right, the multi-polar world, I think, if America could recognize that a little bit more and kind of loosen up a little bit, that, maybe, there is a way of slipping through this period, which is...

Obviously heads are going to roll. There are going to be a lot of vindictiveness and anger; and, somehow, that needs to be managed in a way that’s for everybody’s benefit. And that’s the big issue.

BD: You live out of the country at the moment.

BO’L: Yes.

BD: So, you may have lost touch with a few things. And I’m not saying this in a negative sense.

I live in Arizona, and there is a run on ammunition. People are buying guns and ammunition in the Southwest to such a level that the sporting goods stores and the gun stores cannot keep a stock on hand, because the minute they get a shipment, the shelves are cleaned out!

Now, this is the group of people that I happen to know pretty well, because I came from that group. They are stockpiling guns; they’re stockpiling ammunition; and, when the word comes out how they’ve been conned and lied to for so long, you’re going to have blood in the streets.

And, I think, the Obama crowd, being sharp, know this. I don’t believe that Obama is going to let this... he doesn’t want this on his plate right now, because he’s got so damn many other things to deal with.

BILL RYAN (BR): Steve, what do you think about…?

BD: When you start thinking about how many people out there throughout the country are buying guns and stockpiling ammunition, that is an indication that there is a level of frustration and anger out there in the American masses that the politicians in Washington may not even be aware of.

BR: Stephen talks to politicians all the time -- don’t you, Stephen?

STEPHEN BASSETT (SB): Not exactly. But, one of my concerns here is we’re about to go on the radio in a couple of minutes.

BR: Yep. We’ll just continue as...

SB: But, I mean, there’s... that audience is coming in…

BR: Right.

KC: That’s right.

SB: they don’t know what’s going on. So, I’m going to make a very quick comment, because there’re a lot of things I’d like to comment on, but there’s no antecedent for the audience. I’ll have to kind of re-up it, but, let me just say this. This is very short and sums up a lot of things.

I believe that the principle reason that Americans are experiencing so much angst and frustration, cynicism and paranoia, the principle reason that they are buying guns and/or expressing themselves in ways which are concerning, is not because they’ve been told terrible truths, but because they’ve been lied to extensively for the last, well, going back to the Vietnam War, primarily, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution...

BD: Robbed! Robbed, for God’s sake! SB: ...and stolen blind. So, I sort of view it the other way. If you want people to stop being paranoiac and stop being distrustful of the government and stop arming themselves, you need to start telling the truth. If you start telling the truth and things’ll get better.

Acknowledging the ET presence is a big, big one and that’ll get the ball rolling. Hopefully, it will lead to a – how would you say? – a reformist era, where the truth becomes Standard Operating Procedure.

Holding back, waiting [and] somehow keeping the secret longer? I don’t think it’s going to make it any better; it’s only going to get worse.

And the last thing I’ll say is this: ETs aren’t just here for the Americans. They didn’t come all this way because This America thing, we got to tell them the truth. Right? They’re here engaging the entire planet. We [Americans] represent five percent of the world’s population.

It comes down to this: It doesn’t really matter whether the Americans are ready or not, or the Bangladeshis, or the French, or the Russians. They’re going to deal with it, whether they like it or not, because it’s going to happen, whether they like it or not. It’s unavoidable and inevitable.

BD: Make a point, Stephen, that the ETs are not visitors, for God’s sake.

SB: Well, again, I’m...

BD: They’re not just visiting here. They’ve been here from the beginning of our history.

SB: But that distinction doesn’t affect my political point.

BD: Well, it ought to!

SB: Why? I’m talking about extraterrestrials in the sense of non-human beings, as we understand them, with technology beyond what we have.

Whether they’re from the Inner Earth, from another dimension, from the past, from other star systems – Occam’s razor would say from other star systems – wherever they’re from, right? It is a major event and a significant thing for the world’s population to know this, and that crossing point, when that self-acknowledgement occurs, is a big deal.

Now, the particulars: We know there’s a huge sub-story here. We know that behind this is a massive story. It’s huge and broad, and everybody is trying to understand it. Everybody knows a little about it, a little here, and so forth. Nobody knows the full story; nobody’s got it all right. They know a little piece.

The dilemma is that the political process, or the social transition, is not about figuring the whole thing out and bringing it out to the public and saying: Here. We can’t do that.

Disclosure is nothing more than the first step towards that process. Because, once the governments formally acknowledge this reality and the schools can teach it, and the philanthropists can fund it, and the media can cover it, and the intellectuals can discuss it -- then we can start sorting the whole damn thing out and say: This is nonsense; that’s not true; this person’s a fraud; that person’s the real deal; that story’s good; that story’s bad. And, actually, create a real history of this issue as best we can.

But, until Disclosure takes place, that’s not going to happen. We’re going to continue to churn, and churn, and churn.

And remember that this arena, this hall of smoke and mirrors we’re in, we didn’t build it -- the government built it. The government put those mirrors up; put the smoke in the hall. They have deliberately made it very difficult, if not impossible, to have a clear understanding. That was a government policy.

We have to end that policy, and Disclosure is the end of that policy. And that’s Disclosure with a capital D; a formal acknowledgement of the ET presence. That’s it, nothing more.

Disclosure with a small d has been going on for a long time, no question, an unfolding of information, citizen process, misinformation; all mixed in. That’s small d. All right? That’s been happening, absolutely, no question.

BUT in spite of all that disclosure with a small d, do the universities teach it? Does the press properly cover it? Does the government fund it? Do we have, you know, think tanks devoted to it? No, we don’t.

What government does -- matters. What Obama and the administration does -- matters; and, so they have to act. You can’t ignore government, right?

You know, people want peace and they say: Well, I want peace, so the government doesn’t matter... until the government comes and takes your son or your daughter and sends them off to war.

What government does -- matters; so, we have to engage it, and we have to deal with the process, using the institutions we have, to get the proper result.

BD: You all are aware of the Pandora’s Box story, the legend going back to ancient Greece. Pandora’s Box had all the Furies in Hell of the entire world, locked and sealed. You open Pandora’s Box just a little tiny bit and all Hell breaks loose, because you can’t release just a little tiny bit.

If you release just one little tiny bit, you’ve got a million questions and a million pissed off people wanting to know the rest of it. And I don’t believe that our government, at this moment, is in any position to even begin to tell them the rest of the story.

Because do you know about the impact on theology? You know what the Brookings Report said. You try to tell the people out there that Jesus of Nazareth was one of Them [points up] – and the evidence we’ve all had is: Yes, he was. Now, how do you tell that to fundamentalists?

RF: Excuse me...

BD: Look at the Muslim world right now.

RF: The Brookings Report, that was in 1961 or something.

BD: ’61. Yes.

RF: I mean, now we have 2009.

BD: Robert, it’s still national…

RF: [unclear] a kind of representative of the younger generation...

BD: ...policy, sadly enough.

RF: Okay, okay, okay. Maybe, you know, in many generations – it’s a problem for many generations, obviously. But I have to tell you. I belong to a younger generation. I know many people my age and younger. For them it’s not so unimaginable. It’s not so...

When you say: You know, the American government, or certain people in the military-industrial complex, covered that up.

They say: All right. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that. You know, it’s not a big deal for them. [laughs]

[everyone talks at once]

KC: Okay. Let me... Hello, hello, hello! Let me interrupt. We’re going on the air. Bill, are you announcing? Are we on the air? We should be on the air at the moment, according to the time.

[Kerry and Bill discuss computer setup for radio broadcast]

KC: Go ahead, you guys. Let’s continue this. The younger generation... you want to say something, Brian?

BO’L: Yes. What I wanted to say is that it seems like that the problem... you know, we obviously have a tiger by the tail here, [Bob Dean laughs] and that we all recognize that anger is an initial reaction once Disclosure really unfolds with a capital D.

So, if we can recognize this, and our so-called adversaries, let’s say the keepers of the secrets, can sit down at a table and negotiate the release of the information where, in their perception, it wouldn’t hurt them that much – just maybe that’s the opening.

It seems like that’s the nub of the issue is that the cover-up and the encrustation of cover-ups going on for the last 65 years has created this Pandora’s Box which, if opened, could lead to a process of truth and reconciliation – which would, just perhaps, launch us into the new paradigm, which is so badly needed anyway, in order to save our precious planet.

So that’s the way I’d like to see it, is to provide the basis for some sort of negotiation, or process of truth and reconciliation, to be able to create certain levels of amnesty and...

BD: You want us to forgive the sinners, do you? [laughs]

BO’L: Well, eventually, yes.

PAOLA HARRIS (PH): It’s going to happen.

[vigorous crosstalk]

SB: We do it all the time.

VOICE: Yes, I’m sorry.

KC: The filmmakers have something…

VOICE: Yeah, I just have one thing that I want to put out there, because we’re talking about two scenarios at a time, because the real thing -- what’s going on, the cover-up? I’m afraid, certain of the third phenomena, it’s the counterfeit. I mean, the black operations, the manifestations, the false Second Coming, the manufacture...

KC: Project Blue Beam. We’re getting to that, actually, yes.

VOICE: [continues speaking but is inaudible]

KC: Okay. The filmmakers would like to us to address that. Yes. That’s important. Okay. We’re going there. Actually, just so you guys know...

BD: False...

KC: Yeah, one of the... yeah. What we’re talking about here is when I said: Why now? Part of the question is: Why now in this juncture? And what is it, as part of the possible agenda, what these people have in mind?

Because they don’t do things without sort of a self-serving angle involved, and it may be that they’re preparing the groundwork for what will be a false alien invasion scenario.

NP: I’ll speak to this, because I’ve actually been accused of playing a part in this.

KC: Oh great. Go ahead.

NP: If you Google the phrase false-flag alien invasion, you’ll obviously, as you’re well aware, find a lot of material -- quite a lot of it increasingly being pegged on 2012, which has been linked in. Specifically, in some instances, pegged on the Olympic Games to be held in London, and possibly some event supposedly taking place at maybe the closing ceremony.

Now, my involvement with this is that, in amongst my freelance journalism work, I’ve done, I guess, about two or three things, which kind of went on the radar with certain people, if you’ll excuse the pun.

The first was I wrote an op-ed in the New York Times, which went out under the title Unidentified Flying Threats. That went out, I think, on July 29th last year [2008]. A very interesting thing for the conspiracy theorists was right underneath – if you’re one of these people who looks for juxtaposition of headlines – was an unrelated (or was it?) article entitled Can Obama Handle the Offense? So a lot of people read something into that.

I also do a lot of work with The Sun; Britain’s best-selling national daily newspaper. I worked on a story, which went out under the headline Shoot Down the UFO. That, then, got picked up by Fox News and, as some of you may have seen, I was interviewed by Bill Hemmer on that show two or three months back.

So, I’m sort of sounding a little bit defensive here, because, when you mention things like Blue Beam and False-Flag Alien Invasion, because of those media things I’ve done, I’ve actually been put in the frame as one of the guilty parties, and I’d like to absolutely assure everyone that I’m not.

BD: You’re innocent?

NP: Yeah. I’m innocent. Can I get back to a question, which you asked about half an hour ago, which I didn’t get to answer, and I’m going to give you an answer.

KC: Sure, absolutely.

NP: You mentioned Pete Peterson, who I don’t know and haven’t met. No reason to doubt his bona fides, or anything. But my personal answer to the question you asked of Paola: Will this happen? Is No.

I say that for a boring statistical reason, really, but one that can be verified.

Out of all the predictions of either (A) some sort of landing or undeniable alien intervention, or (B) all the predictions of Disclosure... out of all the ones that have been made, a grand total of zero have actually come to pass.

So just from a boring statistical point of view, I’m reasonably confident that the deadline... I think you were saying November, this year?

KC: Well, actually we were saying end of the year.

NP: It, I think, will come and go without incident.

Can I pick up on point also that I think Bob made? It’s something that’s been running through a lot of... or all of us seem to leave out – lack of trust in government. I’ll just throw this out in a wider point of view.

Something Robert said, that people of his generation, if this was unpacked to them that they’d been lied to would just say: Yeah. So what? We thought that was probably true these things were going on. We never did trust the government.

I’m from the UK. Trust in government in the UK at the moment, on just about every issue, is at an all-time low. I don’t know how many of the British news stories have made the media, but our members of parliament have been making bogus claims for expenses and the most outrageous things that we, the taxpayers, have been paying for. Some of them have resigned. Most have not.

Just today it was announced on the news, possibly 100,000 cases of swine flu just in the last week, according to some statistical analyses.

BD: In the UK?

NP: In the UK alone. Now, that’s at the high end of the estimate scale, and estimates of deaths are about 100 from that, depending on whose figures you listen to.

My point is, the other story that came out today was that the Help Line, which has now gone live – this is the government Help Line, arguably one of the most important issues affecting the British people. The people who are manning the Help Lines are not medically trained. Some of them were not even interviewed for those jobs. And, guess what? It doesn’t matter anyway, because the website’s down, because too many people are trying to log on and get through.

So I think a lot of discussions... I know I’ve gone slightly off topic; but, actually, you know, I probably haven’t, because I think faith in government and institutions is at an all-time low. So if it does transpire they’ve lied to us about this, yes, it’s a massive lie, but people won’t be surprised.

AW: It can’t get any worse.

SB: The point of pride…

BD: Let me remind you of something. I know that in the UK they don’t trust their politicians. We don’t trust our politicians. But your politicians caused a scene in 1776 and look what happened. Now, that could tell you what politicians screwing things up can do!

NP: Yes, but [overtalk]

BD: …Revolution, in 1776. That spirit, Nick, let me really tell you, and let me reassert this. That same damn spirit exists in the American people today, and they are as capable in 2009 of doing what they did in 1776. That’s what I’m concerned about.

KC: Yeah. I think that’s important. Absolutely. As a moderator, I want to say here that there’s a youth and age part of this story. Because the anger, I’m going to say, is in the people who’ve been around a long time with the cover-up. The youth have not. Okay? At least not in this body.

And I want to say that anger is not so much an issue over this particular thing – the cover-up – as it is that in a certain sense the youth will turn on a dime, often, will understand, and they’re being sold movies out there that older people don’t even go to.

I go to them, so I know they’re out there. I know they’ve been taught a lot of information, secret information, in the guise of what looks like a childish story.

So, I have to say that, in some ways, it’s true what you’re saying, Rob. It’s not going to blow them away, if some President gets up there and says: Hello, ET’s real. Of course they’re real! That’s going to be the attitude. I know that would my attitude, especially if I was that age, and I know that it’s going to be true of a lot of kids.

But, there’s another side to this, and this is also valid, and it is that there are Americans preparing, as we speak, for the dissolution of what is, in essence, the American government. Okay?

That the cracks... the ship is leaking and has been leaking for a very long time; that patriots and people that have come from the military are fed up; that there’s a huge contingence of that going on.

And that this Disclosure issue of truths in general – that they’ve been lying on the money, the financial end of things; the society, the way they’ve been brought up, the things they’re supposed to do with their lives...

The paradigm, the old paradigm, is crumbling. And, within the crumbling and the dissolution, the controllers know damn well [that] if you just take one more thing and tip the straw off the camel’s back – it’s going to be the Disclosure issue in terms of ETs.

There will be chaos. They’re causing chaos. In fact, that’s what they want, I would suggest, and you can all address this, if you will. But they’re not looking for things to go smoothly right now.

Actually, they want chaos because they want to eliminate a large number of the population, and the viruses, and the chemtrails, and what’s going on, is contributing to that.

[to the audience] Go ahead...

[unclear comment from off stage]

BD: Our Director of Homeland Security recently went public on national media and expressed her view that the returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan are not to be trusted, because they know how to use guns. And they’re coming back, and they look around, and they’re pissed off.

Now this woman used to be the Governor of Arizona. She’s now Director of the Department of Homeland Security. She went on national publication and said: These guys are dangerous, you know? They know how to use guns and they’re coming back and they’re angry.

Well, she touched the tip of the iceberg, let me tell you. Who the hell do you think are out there buying the guns and ammunition? A lot of them are the guys coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan.

KC: Well, I have to say that... well, I shouldn’t name names, but some of our whistleblowers have actually said the exact same thing.

BD: Yeah. Well...

KC: And they are, themselves, preparing. Let’s put it that way.

BD: I know that.

BO’L: And they’re young people.

BD: Well, to me, anyone under 50 is young, you know? [laughter]

KC: But most of our whistleblowers are not young. They’re actually older than the age 50.

SB: Are we on radio yet, by any chance?

KC: [to Bill] What’s going on?

[Bill and Kerry converse re: broadcast situation; Bill confirms the panel is streaming live audio.]

KC: Okay. So let’s continue with this.

SB: I would like to comment here, because there’re a lot of things being said that I don’t agree with and I think I need to make a point, lest I be accused of agreeing.

I am reminded of Jefferson’s quote, that, on occasion, the Tree of Liberty needs to be fertilized with the blood of revolution. But, that said, I don’t believe there’s going to be a revolution. I don’t believe there’s going to be violence in the wake of Disclosure at all. I don’t think there’s going to be a substantial panic. I don’t think anything’s going to happen in that regard.

As I’ve said, I believe that Disclosure will be two things in one. It will be the most profound event in human history, and it will be the most anti-climactic event in human history – thanks to 60-some years of information upon information, and media, and everything else. I mean, we have saturated the world with this issue. And the ETs, of course, have helped by constantly coming and going.

In the world today, the most-known acronym is USA. The second most-known acronym in the world today, amongst everybody, all six billion: UFO. Everywhere. And then, the average population of Iran, thirty-three. [Ed note: meaning average age]

So, look, there’s going to be some angry people, and there’s going to be some people that have grudges, and there are issues to address. But, the first thing that will happen with the acknowledgement of the ET presence is the world will want to know: What, Why, Where, and When. Tell me more. Tell me more.

The issues and the grievances will be shoved completely aside. And for the next weeks, months, or whatever, there’ll be some sort of information exchange.

The government is not stupid. They’re not going to come out initially with the stuff that’s going to make them look awful and flammable.

BD: Some of them are. I’ve met them, dammit.

SB: Other governments may choose to...

BD: Some of them are stupid, because I’ve met them. Nick will tell you, some of their politicians are stupid.

SB: Well hopefully they won’t do that. I would think that they will come out with those things which are relatively positive and reinforcing, and over time, we will get into some of the wilder and crazier stuff.

They’ve had 60 years to plan this. It’s not going to be a random event, unless the ETs force it.

And I say this, because, look -- I respect all of my colleagues’ opinions, believe me. I respect Bob tremendously. But, feeling as I do, I don’t want to be going to the public on the air, and on radio and television, and telling millions of people there’re going to be blood in the streets, there’s going to be a revolution.

PH: No, I don’t want to do that to people either.

SB: If I thought that, by God, I’d say it. But, I think we have to circumspect here, because we are dealing with a profound thing.

PH: I agree with Steve.

SB: There’re a lot of reasons for people being angry with government right now. Without any ETs, you still have lots of problems, and we’re going to still have those problems the day after Disclosure. But, ultimately, when the government starts telling the truth, things are likely to get better.

And the last thing I’ll say is this: When the Vietnam War ended, one of the first questions that, I think, was posed to the Vietnam War activists was: All of your anti-war stuff all of these years -- can you tell us that you shortened the Vietnam War by a single day?

And the answer is: It wasn’t really clear. May not. Probably didn’t.

And we’re going to be asked the same question: You rattled our cages for all of these years. Did you bring Disclosure one day sooner than the government would have done it anyway?

And the answer is: I don’t know; very likely not.

But it doesn’t matter, because all of this has raised the public awareness and brought these issues out and spread them around the globe, on the Net and every way, so hundreds of millions of people are getting a sense, an understanding, an awareness. So, when it does happen, they’re going to be a little more ready.

And, if some fool in some government somewhere says: Let’s take advantage of this big deal. Let’s concoct something. I think if we get an alien war thing out there, we’re going to be able to spend trillions of dollars, and I’ve got companies we can fund…

I think the Internet, and you, and your colleagues are going to shred it in about 24 hours, break it out in the open, and these people will already be on their way to jail.

We are raising public awareness to get Disclosure. When it’ll happen? Hopefully soon. But, it’s not simply about Disclosure; it’s about understanding.

KC: Okay...

BD: We don’t have enough jail room to handle all of the government people, like the guys in the House and the Senate, who should go to jail.

SB: We’ll put ’em in the FEMA camps. [laughter]

KC: All right. This is good energy! Let’s let Alfred have his say here.

AW: I’d like to jump in here on a couple of points to make; first of all, to make the point of – and raise the awareness – that we’re talking about a planetary issue and not an issue of the U.S.

And Steve mentioned Iran. Well, it just so happened; I want to make an announcement that I was contacted by Iranian National Television, and they will be calling in tomorrow at 5 pm – I’ll take it on my cell phone – to interview me on the subject of the extraterrestrial presence on the Moon.

So, this is breaking through all of the national stereotypes that we have.

If we look at the era that we’re in, it’s an era of Galactic consciousness, and that is moving beyond being Spaniards, or being Americans, or Canadians, and moving beyond even being citizens of planet Earth -- to being citizens of an organized and populated Galaxy. That’s where the leading edge of Exopolitics is, really.

Now, jumping to the second point, this thing about the dissolution of the US -- I can remember being a futurist at the Center for the Study of Social Policy at Stanford Research Institute in 1977, the same year that we were doing the Carter White House extraterrestrial-proposed study.

It was common parlance –- in the halls –- of the plan to break up the US into five or six contiguous regions; Washington and Oregon was Ecotopia, you know? [laughs] And there were various names for the other regions.

So, I think that those of us who can appreciate that there are trans-national forces running some of the shadow government elements of the US, the whole plan for the dissolution of the US now is really a trial balloon that has been in the planning, in the think-tanks, for over 40 years: Oh yeah, let’s dissolve the US and, you know, we do a Soviet Union on it, and then we go on to some other market.

I think I’d like to really appeal to the patriotism of Robert Dean here and to what Steven said that, on some esoteric levels, the United States is supposed to be an expression of the Enlightenment; kind of an inheritor of the Enlightenment of the days when Egypt and Mars were one civilization – we have some proof of that now from the Mars Rover photographs.

So, I would tend to resist identifying with disintegrating the US now, because I think it’s part of a manipulation.

Finally, I’d like to put my vote – I could be wrong – more on the 2002 Roper Report, rather than on the Brookings Report. That means that, when queried, 85 percent of people were completely congruent, were totally cool, with the specific question: If the government were to announce an extraterrestrial presence, how would you react?

And eighty-five percent said: It wouldn’t bother me a bit.

I think that the opposite could be true, and that is that there would be celebrations. You have even activists in our camp who talk about having rock extraterrestrial concerts to welcome in this age. It’s kind of a falling of the Berlin Wall, and it’s more of a birth, rather than a death of the old system.

There’s always been kind of a bifurcation in Exopolitics, which, I think, Michael and Paola and I were talking about today. That is, do we focus on the short Grays and the Reptilians and their reported plans for extermination of two-thirds of the human race with the H1N1 virus, or some other virus? For which there is some possible evidence to start thinking that way. You know, there’s been research informally that has surfaced here that there may be negative extraterrestrial influence behind the chemtrails phenomenon, which I think has been mentioned in some contexts as possibly carrying a precursor of the H1N1 virus. –

Or, do we concentrate on the positive leading edge of the evidence that there’s a strategic alliance of ethical upper-dimensional extraterrestrials -- the White Hats -- I think, that people were talking about?

I could easily see a scenario, if we have the government that has the courage to do it – and I don’t know whether the Obama administration that hasn’t been able to close Guantanamo, which is a blatant war crime – could do that.

But they could spin it to say: Look, for national security reasons, we have maintained diplomatic relations, and we’ve had strategic alliances with the following... and, for national security reasons, we’ve had to withhold that from you for 60 years, for the following reasons.

And there could be plausible reasons there, including military attacks by the Grays.

I think that a population would be more in relief and celebration, rather than reacting violently and with despair.

SB: Alfred, when the University of Exopolitics is finally founded, we’re only going to let you teach the graduate courses. [laughter]

BO’L: Yeah, I see what’s going on right now is this two-edged sword. There is, on the one hand, the perception that anger could be released. That would, obviously, be a perception shared by those keeping the secrets; then, on the other hand, a time of great celebration for the new paradigm. I see it as a concomitant process that both of the above will be happening and there will be a period of chaos. It’s a time of crisis and opportunity, and a group like this can mediate those discussions and bring it out into the open.

NP: I think Steve’s right with his When, What, Why kind of point. You know, in my experience of the media, if an announcement was made, almost the very first thing is going to be: What do they look like? Can we see a picture? Where do they come from? What’s their home look like?

We’re not going to get into these deeper issues before we’ve done the very basic tabloid stuff.

PH: I agree with Steve, too. I want to go on record as saying I will not buy into the anger, everybody-shooting-each-other ridiculous scenario. [laughs] I think that people are intelligent, and I think there is a third thing might happen: Some people maybe don’t care.

Because, I have spoken to a group of people that just don’t give a darn, whether it’s announced, it’s not announced. It’s not going to affect their reality. So, it’s not just rejoicing or let’s run in the street and kill people and be angry.

There’s a whole level of people that have told me: Frankly, Paola, it doesn’t affect me at all. And we have to remember those people.

NP: Well, Paola, this probably isn’t the right thing to say to you, but maybe this is a good time to quote John Alexander.

PH: Oh, yes. I know what you’re going to say now. [laughs] Yes.

NP: Didn’t he say, you know, didn’t he end a presentation with all this talking about Disclosure and say: Well, Joe Blow, Joe Six-pack, whatever, his question is: “Does any of this mean I don’t have to go to work tomorrow?”

KC: Actually, that’s the point. It does. It quite possibly could mean that. And that’s actually getting to the root of the matter.

What you are talking about is a revolution in a paradigm. It may not mean blood in the streets, exactly, but it could quite possibly mean a rebellion in consciousness that results in people becoming co-creators of this world in a conscious way, such that they don’t go to work tomorrow, because they realize that one of the things that comes out of UFOs is free energy.

It opens up that Pandora’s Box such that the possibilities... because the ETs come from a very advanced scientific future, and that much is obvious. They’re visiting us, they’re dealing with our government, the government’s been dealing with them. This is the other side of that story, is: What does it mean for us?

And certainly, in the eyes of the Powers That Be, will Disclosure happen? Because, what it means is that it’s a relinquishing of power on a certain level. If they are not in complete control of this world, because they don’t have the highest technology, the highest intelligence [and] they’re not the man on top anymore. Okay? Then who’s on top? And that becomes the question.

So, maybe, Joe Six-pack doesn’t realize that right off, but maybe he does. Maybe, on a subliminal level, he realizes the controllers are not in control, that the game has changed, that it’s thrown wide open, and that all things are suddenly possible, and that we can rework this thing, and we can also take down the...

As John Lennon would say, that there are no countries anymore, that there are no borders anymore; and that we are humans – all of us; we are united -- all of us; that we are One People; and that these aliens -- who look like us -- may be our brothers and sisters and fathers and ancestors, whatever you want to say.

It changes the entire paradigm in every way. It’s like the cards... where does the expansion end? And these are the possibilities. So, what I would say is that let’s talk about...

Once you open the door of Disclosure, there is a sense in which Pandora’s Box will open, and there is no limit to the questions that can be asked. Not just the people -- like this in this room -- will be asking those questions, but that average people will be.

MS: I think that we need to kind of open or expand the vocabulary, because we’re kind of assuming that there’s going to be a transition from secrecy or denial to Disclosure. I think, actually, we’re missing an intermediate step, which is Openness. There’s going to be a transition from Denial to Openness; and, after we’ve have Openness for a few years, then we’ll have Disclosure.

At the secret UN meetings that I mentioned, that occurred in February last year, one of the things that had been agreed upon by the national delegates that were attending, was that, beginning in 2009, they would begin a process of international openness on these issues.

When you look at what’s been happening over this year, it’s like, well, what we’re seeing is not so much Disclosure; what we’re seeing is Openness. We’re seeing files being released. We’re seeing the media tackling these issues in an objective way. Now, I think, that is how you will prepare the groundwork for Disclosure, maybe in 2011, or 2012.

So, I think we need to kind of accept that the people that are moving forward are very rational. They’re not going to try to panic people. They’re going to try to prepare people through a very-well-thought-out process of releasing more and more stuff, getting universities to deal with these issues in a systematic way...

BR: There are a lot of researchers -- now turned to journalists -- being allowed to do this work.

MS: Exactly. So, I think, we’re going to have this process of Openness, maybe, for two years, three years, accelerating. And, then, eventually, we’re going to have Disclosure.

What you’re saying, like at the end of this year, 2009, you know, by just releasing this Congressional Research Report, that’s not so much Disclosure, because they didn’t find the answers for Carter. But what they did was, they prepared him for: this is what might be going on.

So there’s an Openness process at work here, and I think that is what we are now witnessing and are in the midst of.

SB: Well, if they think they can stretch this out for three more years, my hat’s off to ’em -- but I’ll take the bet. Right? I mean, what was that phrase? If you want to make God laugh, tell Her your plans? Right?

SEVERAL VOICES: Right. Yeah, right.

SB: They’ve had 62 years to plan out something, right? So this idea: Okay, now we’ll go through enlight… you know; nah, I don’t think so. But, let me comment on something that Kerry said, because I’m going to get into this a little bit on Sunday. Without getting into the outcomes, predicting any outcomes, I do believe – and I’m speaking from a more nuts and bolts sense – I have this hunch that Disclosure media presence will trigger, very possibly, the greatest era of reform in history; going back to the Sumer, to the flood.

In other words, it’s going to create a kind of cascading effect in which, because of the fact that the world’s attention will suddenly be focused pretty much in the same direction, through billions of eyes focusing in the same direction, then everything sort of is tossed up in the air, everything goes on the table suddenly – which happens once in a while...

That the reformist movements that are out there – and there’s reformist movements everywhere, right? You just don’t hear about them, but they’re out there struggling along, working out of their basements – will suddenly be given life, and energy and money. And you’re going to see, literally, a systemic, I think, spectral, reform that will be staggering in its size and scope.

Now, will it lead us to wonderful things? Will it all work out? Will it be like the French Revolution – you start off with a good idea and, the next thing you know, you’re lopping heads? I don’t know.

But, I know that the opportunity is there. And, for me, that’s one of the reasons to keep going and do this. It’s not just: Oh, they’ll tell us the ETs are here.

We have a world that has basically been shoving stuff under the rug for a couple of centuries – putting things in the closet, sticking them in the attic, not taking care of business, not dealing with what has to be done – and that was going to catch up with us.

I think this is the trigger that suddenly says: Okay, we’ve got to clean out the basement; clean out the attic; we’ve got to cut the lawn; we’ve got to take care of business; we’ve got to clean up the secret empire; we’ve got to start filming the Bilderberg meetings; we’ve got to toss the Skull and Bones idiots off the Yale campus.

We’ve got to do a lot of things. We need monetary reform. We need doctrinal reform in the Christian church, the Islamic faith. We’ve got to take care of stuff, because a lot of stuff is stupid, right? It’s ridiculous. But we’re locked up. After the last few thousand years, we’re just completely all locked up and can’t move.

And so, you go to the Congress for some simple thing and the Congress is going: I can’t move. And you go to the Islamic faith and say: Look, we need a little change here. We’re going to have a world threat -- “We can’t act.” Catholic Church can’t change its policy on birth control. We can’t get anything done.

All of a sudden – BOOM -- into this, comes the biggest event of all time. So, what happens after that is up to us. I just look at my job as trying to help people look and see and, maybe, be part of the post-Disclosure world.

But we, hopefully, earned our right to be on stage; hopefully, we’ve earned the right to be heard -- but not necessarily so.

The mainstream may come and say: Look, you guys have been bugging us about this for 20 years. Yeah, you were right. Now go away. We hate you. Right? [laughter] We’ve got PhDs from Harvard and Yale and I’ve been working with the government for 40 years and I really know all about this stuff. You-all go away.

We may have to stand together hard, because the mainstream will want us to go away. We’re going to have to fight for our post-Disclosure opportunities and positions, which is why I hope that the tensions and disagreements that exist -- particularly between the Exopolitical field and the old guard UFOlogical field -- don’t get worse.

NP: Is this thing worth addressing here?

SB: Oh yeah. Sure.

PH: It could be worth addressing, but could I add something to that? I was told, by people in the Intelligence Community, when they tried to hand the phone over to Paul Hellyer, ex-Minister of Defence, because they were going to talk to him about keeping quiet. You know Paul Hellyer, ex-Minister of Defence? [He] read Corso’s book that this was a very serious situation we needed to deal with.

We were in Hawaii and the phone was going right across me, and they said to me: Paola, you people do not know what you’re doing. We’ve got it handled.

SB: Who said this to Paul?

PH: The Intelligence Community. I don’t want to mention the names, but they were people that I know that are working on that side of the fence in the UFO question.

SB: Right.

PH: They are very well-known people and their connection with money, and so forth; and, when they tried to hand the phone to Paul Hellyer and I would let the phone go by, I said he’s on his honeymoon, you can’t talk to him – they said to me: Paola, you people are amateurs. You do not know what you’re talking about. We have it handled.

Now, the words: we have it handled. And my brain was going: What do you have handled? [laughter] Who do you think you’re dealing with?

SB: Yeah, they have it so well-handled that we have two fine Trade Center buildings in New York just standing tall there. You can go see them right now.

PH: And so he never got the phone call that time. He got it later, because they wanted to make sure they told him to calm down and stop speaking.

KC: Okay. But, I have a question here. I have a question that’s going to blow this thing wide open.

BR: Uh-oh.

KC: Actually, it’s two-pronged, but… one: What if Disclosure is the only thing that can happen prior to a real invasion scenario that’s been going on, while we’re here on the planet, the whole time?

SB: Then it would be a...

KC: What if...

SB: And it...

KC: What if the days are numbered for that scenario, that’s real – I’m positing it as real. And, what if there is only, as our recent witness is saying, there’s only about three years left on this planet before -- if we continue at the rate we’re going -- there’s no, I don’t know, oxygen; the whole thing is trashed?

Now, what if we’re actually living a timeline that doesn’t just go out, stretching out there for all these different educational processes to take place, but we’ve actually reached a kind of End Game, in which humanity has no choice? That a choice has to be made, and some people have decided they’re going to make that choice for us?

What if?

SB: Well, Kerry, everybody has to die. I would rather die knowing the truth of this world, than die with a head full of government lies.

BR: That’s a good [overtalk].

KC: Okay. I’m saying Disclosure happens; Disclosure is happening; it’s happening right here today -- but what I’m suggesting is something that hasn’t been talked about, and is never talked about, okay?

We have a false-flag alien invasion, on the one hand, that the government... Because, I don’t know if people out there have seen my video sighting that I had at Lake Geneva, you know, one night, of this gigantic craft that was clearly, at least to me, being driven by not only our guys, but maybe a couple Reptilians at the helm, so to speak.

I mean, what you have to deal with is that we may be reaching... according to the whistleblower that we started this whole conversation with, positing that Obama’s coming forward with this information. On top of it, that same guy, who is an insider with what he says, is a higher clearance than presidents, okay? His access is higher than the president today.

And he is saying, number one: Prepare.

Number two: You’ve got no idea what the real story is. That it’s not even being talked about -- even in our circles. We still haven’t gotten to the very bottom of the story. It involves things like race; like a whole, huge slew of robots, okay? It involves travel outside this Solar System that we’ve been involved in – we, the government.

It involves so many different levels... to say: They’ve got it handled. Well, they just might. And, what they’ve got handled is not necessarily something in our favor.

You know, I know we’re laughing and there’s possible, and there could be a lot of different levels. There’s a false-flag idea, but there are agendas at work here and there may be things that have not been dreamed of here in your philosophy.

And I have to say that ‘Henry Deacon’ is sitting out there in the audience and, at any time now, [addressing Henry] because you have a certain degree of knowing, you’re welcome to join us here. But, what was drilled into ‘Henry Deacon’ from day one, once he joined these black projects, was: We are the wolves and they are the sheep. Okay?

There’s a sensibility about... a perception about... an attitude that goes behind that. And that is not to do with being a member of the United States – it’s being a member of a secret government that’s worldwide and has an agenda. Okay? And is teaching their military employees a certain line of reasoning that has to do with: we have no choice.

It’s on the Georgia Guidestones: We plan to make this Earth a better place and the way we’ve going to do that, guys, is to eliminate, whatever, two-thirds of the population? It’s a plan.

It also has to do with their relationships with these ETs that we’re saying we know are here. But deals have been made. Deals in our name have been made, on the good side with the good guys and on the bad side with some of the bad guys – if the information that we at Camelot have been getting is true.

So I’m just throwing this open to make it a little bit wider, a little bit more outrageous, and just see what…

AW: Yeah. I thank you for widening our concept. I really think this is what Exopolitics is all about.

To bring this back to the topic at hand, which is Disclosure, there’s a way that the Disclosure movement is the modern abolition movement by which slavery was abolished in the United States by a movement, an abolition movement, which started in the UK, which then went worldwide. I mean, we’re still feeling the effects of it.

Fundamentally the Disclosure movement should be a movement to free us, the slaves, from our metaphysical slavery at being denied the true concept of what’s going on, and at stopping any plans for our projected demise. Because we are free and sovereign souls on this planet, in this dimension, and citizens of the Galaxy, and no other sovereign has the right to deny that to us.

So the Disclosure movement really takes on, and has to take on, the moral force and breadth of the abolition movement that, in centuries past, abolished physical slavery. This is – we’re talking about consciousness slavery. So, I really support your bringing in that wider concept of discussion.

SB: I second that in this regard, and I’ve been talking about this of late. I believe that – and Hegland talks about this, the Presidential candidate that split the TM movement – I believe that the suppression of reality from the citizens by the state – meaning: telling you that, say, the sun actually goes around the Earth and not the other way around – is in fact a violation of natural law. It violates a fundamental law. It’s beyond the law of the state.

Now, what do I mean by that? I think you would agree that if any nation, any country, were to, say, pass a law in their legislature that you could murder anybody you wanted to – meaning, just kill somebody, it’s okay, it’s legal – that they would say: No, no. Whatever your constitution, whatever, that violates a fundamental natural law that’s beyond the law of man, in a sense, and you just don’t do that.

Well, I think this is also true. So this violation of actually denying the reality to the people, there is no law that can justify it. There is no law that man could pass that can justify it.

So, we’re really dealing with something at that transcendent level. And, as long as that is the case, it’s virtually a toxic poison that just seeps down and corrupts everything. Everything you can think of.

So, it has to end. I don’t care what the what-ifs are; it doesn’t matter. It simply has to end. Right? And once it’s ended, once that denial of reality is ended, we will try to deal with what-ifs in the best way we can.

VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: …[unclear, lots of echo] …the secret ... and join once together and ... bringing the values, the UFO issue... there’s no... the secret... [continues, unclear] Why are the governments keeping secrets from the public?

BR: This is a voice from the audience. Could you tell us who you are, because you’re not on camera?

VOICE: What?

KC: I think you have to repeat the question.

VOICE: [lots of echo, barely audible] ... It’s not easy. In every country in the world they are going to...

[camera pans to man holding paper sign up to panel]

KC: Stop the secrecy.

BR: Top secret. Oh, I see the... that’s very nice.

VOICE: There are people, Alex Jones’s people and my people have a lot of help [unclear] and all are focused on the secrets. So that we have to go to the point in which, denying, the states to keep secrets from the public. In this moment we can join all the different movements that are fighting in its own fight and we can all together, the world united in demonstration.

That is what I ask of you all, to help make a world demonstration in which the public, the humankind, denies to the governments to keep secrets from them.... [continues, unclear, lots of echo] and then there is disparity … all…

BR: Yeah. For the sake of the camera, please tell us who you are. Nobody knows who you are.

VOICE: [unclear] … I wrote a book called Extraterrestrial … and all the information they gave to me. I am a sort of you, but now say in Spanish the thing that… you have to hear us also, because it’s not, as you said, something from the USA. You are not going to win this fight alone.

BR: Absolutely.

SB: That’s why we’re here.

VOICE: We’re going to win, all of us together, all of humankind and the thing... [unclear] there are people who don’t care about the rest of us.

PH: Who don’t care? [laughs]

VOICE: They don’t care. But, how can we approach to them? Because we are in a higher position, we have to approach to them, not them to us. So we go to Alex Jones and say: OK, what we have in common -- what secrets? Do the governments have the right to keep secrets from the public? [unclear]

Above all, this is the reasoning for me: If something is good, why keep it secret? You only have secrets when it’s bad, no? If it’s good, be transparent, be clear, no?

BR: Okay, now…

KC: That was my point. And now Michael has to leave.

BR: Michael has to leave. We invite you to have a last word. I don’t think it’s going to be the last word, but it’s an opportunity for you to say your piece here before you have to leave, but I have the feeling that this conversation is going to continue for a while.

SB: What, you’ve got an audience with the king, by any chance, Michael?

BR: There are a lot of people listening on audio now.

MS: Well, I want to emphasize again that, as far as the United States is concerned, because it is the most powerful nation when it comes to managing the extraterrestrial secrets, that there has been a fundamental struggle between...

On the one hand, trans-national organizations and actors – and the neoconservative agenda during the Bush administration was one of the focal points of that – and the constitutional forces in the United States government, the so-called White Hats; people associated the Navy and the other kind of loyal constitutional forces.

Now, 9/11 – September 11, 2001 – was, I believe, the first in a series of false-flag attacks which would culminate in something along the lines of an alien invasion.

I think it was the first of many and the reason it did not occur was that the constitutional forces were strong enough to prevent the trans-nationalists from moving forward with this sequence of false-flag events that would culminate in a nuclear attack in the United States, and then an eventual false-flag attack, which would create a chaos around the world.

With the Obama administration, I think, what we have now is that there’s an ascendancy of the constitutional forces.

So, I am far more optimistic that the transition to Disclosure is going to be much more harmonious, much more thought-out in a way where the public is properly prepared, so that, when the truth finally does emerge – whether it’s at the end of this year, or in three years’ time – that it will be done in a way where we can all be confident that there’s not going to be two-thirds of the population wiped out in some kind of cataclysmic attacks that are false-flag operations, but a much more positive and harmonious transition.

So I’ll leave on that very optimistic note.

BR: Thank you, sir. Well done. Brian O’Leary...

BO’L: I was going to say that I live in Ecuador and the government of Ecuador, well, actually, the people of Ecuador, just ratified a new constitution. And in the constitution – and this is unprecedented, as far as I know – is that Nature has rights. And although it hasn’t been enforced yet, it’s going to natural law.

Natural law is becoming more and more of an inspired common denominator of the world community and that’s really good news, because the opposite extreme is the agenda of Black Ops.

So, I think places like Ecuador could become a kind of a world focus of what alternatives can happen. Now, the government of Ecuador is also kicking out the U.S. Air Force, the Manta Air Force Base, at the end of this year. And these are all positive signs that the imperial powers, the secrecy, the trashing of the Earth – that it is beginning to unravel. And so natural law, I think, needs to kind of dictate the future agenda.

SB: This gentleman made a comment I want to comment on very quickly. He pointed at something, which is very important.

There are right now around the world and in the United States, many, many activist movements trying to get at fundamental government lies of some kind or another -- institutional lies. But, by and large, none of these movements are getting anywhere. The secrecy reform is one of the least funded of all, but they’re all passionate and they want to get forward.

The ET issue is, because of its incredible profoundness, has got the potential to break through. And, what happens if we break through that window, that door, these other reformist operations and secrecy movements are going to be able to go through and start working to resolve their issues. In other words, it’s like somebody breaking through the line and everyone follows behind them. That’s non-trivial.

There are many, many lies, many governments out there that have created false realities and the people have a chance to, maybe, deal with that, finally. But, we will be kind of the point of the spear. If that’s the way it is -- that’s the way it is. But, I try to keep that in mind.

I have tried to network with some of these other groups. Some are environment, some are in peace, landmines, whatever; but, because of the stigma of the UFO thing, they do not want to sit and break bread. I understand that.

VOICE: It’s about how can we approach the [unclear].

SB: It’s not easy, but it’s getting better, you know, and we may start to see more collaboration. But, probably, we’ll see Disclosure first.

Paola, once Disclosure comes, I think all of us are going to be very popular, and people will want to come and talk with us, and we can network, and we will hopefully help each other out.

BR: That’d be nice.

PH: I agree with what he says, as far as: I remember, during the Vietnam War, the Native Americans took over Wounded Knee. We had a lot of other groups come through and there was change in society over the Vietnam War question. If you remember, the Native Americans took up and did the same thing.

However this is a discussion that is a part of what we’ve been talking about. There is a chapter in my new book, All of the Above, called Alien Racism. I have made so many mistakes, because I do not know who’s visiting us, I do not know where they come from, and I have no idea how they think, because they are alien.

And one of the problems I’ve had with all of my stories is that I have interviewed people like Dr. Michael Wolf whose contact was a Gray, but it was a baby Gray cult; it was not The Gray.

There are several types of Grays. That particular Gray was a positive Gray. It was from another place.

And I have interviewed people who have been contacted by different races that appear ugly. And I do not think that we have the time to say this good, bad, evil, or whatever.

I was very embarrassed by something that happened to me. I was talking about the Reptilians over dinner with some Native American people, and one of those women was a shaman. She was a medicine lady.

And she said: How dare you? She said: Our ancestors were the Serpent People and they carried The Knowledge. She said: The Serpent People from our ancestors were not evil and they were very wise people.

And she said to me: Quetzalcoatl is called “plumed serpent” in Mexico. A lot of cultures have these Serpent People. And we just called all Reptilians evil!

I’d like to know how they would think of us. If we’re on another planet, they show some pictures of us and say: These people are evil, they are pedophile; they have sex with their children. These people are good, because these people are Tibetan; what they do is they are Tibetan monks and they meditate all day.

These judgments on these races of aliens cannot be made just like this: good, bad, Reptilian, Gray, blondes – because, maybe, some of the blondes and some of the Pleiadians, who are coming here, are not exactly positive. So, in my chapter, I say: It is according to the agenda of the race – why they are here.

Some of them are here, maybe, for their agenda -- like hybridization, because they need survival and they’re using our egg and sperm, because they need to survive. For them, that’s good. For us, that’s not so good; they didn’t ask permission. But, you know, let’s look at this before we go and brand Reptilians, Blondes, and Nordics are good…

Colonel Corso told me there were 57 different races of aliens; and, just from Paola, I have to say aliens, for me, are alien. I have no idea how they think. I don’t have any idea why they’re here, and I’m not going to take the government’s testimony as gospel as to why these people are here.

And, when we get as angry as I’ve heard us be, let’s remember that there’re whole groups that are here that are spiritual light-beings. They’re interdimensional. They are also inspiring us. They’re spiritual light-beings that are not...

I don’t know why we call them aliens. They’re just beings. They’re souls from other places. Why do we brand those people aliens? They’re giving us inspiration every day to go and do things; and, whether they appear as light, whether they appear as people, whether they appear whatever...

To me, I still think we need to be careful about alien racism and putting that out there, because people are going to be afraid. And then I had an Indian shaman lady saying: Watch what you say about the Serpent People.

BR: I’d like to support that with a piece of second-hand testimony that I can report from Barbara Lamb, who’s done a lot of work with Experiencers. I met her at the Conscious Life Expo in Los Angeles this February.

She told me a personal story about how a Reptilian had appeared in her room, out of nowhere, had held her hand and looked her in the eye for two minutes, and communicated with her that he had been bred to communicate with certain people, to spread the message that they are not all bad. And that’s very, very interesting to me.

PH: We have to be careful, because the UFO community is putting everything in boxes: this is the way it is and this is the way it is and this is...

BR: Because it’s convenient for us to...

PH: Well, we’re human. That’s why we do that.

BR: That’s right. We’re always judging and we’re always putting things in boxes and the truth might be much more complicated than that.

PH: I think it’s very complicated.

KC: Well, it is very complex, and thank you, Paola. I believe that that is something, that, actually, in the community – if you want to use this in a very loose sense – that there are all different kinds of beings, that that’s really what we’re talking about, and widening the perception of the kinds of beings and the multi-dimensional nature of all of life, us included.

That’s what we’re here to talk about. That’s what we’re opening the doors to. What happens is -- you’re right, when it gets to sovereignty, that’s one of the most important aspects of what we’re talking about here.

What we’re talking about here is a transition that we’re going through, humanity and the planet. In fact, possibly the Galaxy; galaxies, are all in a state of evolution, ETs included, okay?

ETs, interdimensionals, you name it; they’re all spirits inhabiting bodies, inhabiting light bodies, if you will. It just depends. We’re all spirit.

So, at any rate, what Brian’s saying is also valid. In other words, this is Gaia, this Earth, and we need to actually protect her, allow her to thrive. And this has been held in slavery for too long. Okay? This being, this whole being we call the Earth, is a being.

So, actually, you know, it is a movement towards freedom, of breaking the chains. It gets that wide, but it’s also a question to be asked of every, you know, visiting... even people that are here, even subterranean beings.

We’re talking about: Is the Earth and is humanity allowed sovereignty? Are we each individually allowed sovereignty to grow and thrive to the best ability that we have to do so?

BR: And can we assure [or show?] that we’re capable of it?

KC: We’re doing so at the moment, I would surmise. But, you know, what we’re saying here is, basically, that some of these beings are coming here with an agenda, just like some of the controllers, so-called, whatever you want to term these people. They are not alien; they are us. Okay? Nonetheless they have chosen to control. And we have given them that ability to control.

We’re taking it back, slowly, but surely. That’s what it’s all about, is taking back the control of our own sovereignty and saying: No! Enough! You won’t make decisions for us. We are co-creators and we’re going to do this together.

But, not to also allow more advanced races to take us over, to determine our path, etcetera, etcetera. So, there are many levels to this Exopolitical view of how we’re dealing with this future that we’re fast approaching.

BR: I was going to say that I’m thinking that we need to wrap this quite soon, because, otherwise, we won’t have anything to talk about this weekend. [laughter] And this is the start of a conversation, rather than the finish of one.

I was going to propose that Alfred, as the founder of the term Exopolitics, might usefully be able to make a little final summation, if such a thing is possible, and then we can continue this conversation elsewhere and else-when.

AW: Well, I will attempt one, but I will be very humble. [laughs] I think that what we have touched in this conversation really is a reflection of the multi-dimensionality, as you were saying, of the multiverse reality in which we live.

And Exopolitics as a social science – the science of relations between our human civilization and other intelligent, highly intelligent, civilizations in the multiverse – can serve as an interface. We were all able to encapsulate and hold this entire conversation within the discipline of Exopolitics, as we would have within the discipline of Anthropology, were we studying some tribe that we had discovered on an island.

So I want to thank you for advancing the discipline in this conversation and we look forward to many more in its evolution. BR: Steve...?

SB: I don’t want to... not wrap it – but, rather, I want to put something on the record, since we’re on camera that I think is important. I should have done it sooner. Forgive me.

Namely this: that the umbrella of Exopolitics allows us to engage a much broader, almost infinite, array of issues of past, present, and future without question, and that’s where I want to be.

But, I think, we must remember that all of us stand on the shoulders of a group of individuals who plowed through this issue, starting in the ’40s, from primarily a pure research kind of forensic approach – scientific – creating organizations, and doing research and sighting reports and what have you.

And they had to do this during the heart of the truth embargo, when the government was absolutely opposed in every way to this going forward. It was brutal. It was difficult. And many of them haven’t live to see this kind of discussion.

We just lost such a person recently, just a few days ago – Richard Hall, legendary researcher – died. Others are going to die.

As it happens – and this is not surprising; it’s happened before – as we transition from the UFO Research Era to the Exopolitical Era, very serious tensions have developed between these old-guard researchers and the Exopolitical activists and what have you. They’re not foundless. There are reasons for it and they need to be appreciated and they’re growing.

I wanted to be clear that I, for one, know that, without them, I couldn’t be doing what I’m doing, and I have every intention as this goes forward...

I’ve been graced with the opportunity to do lots of media and get out there. Okay, fine. But as this thing culminates and we move past Disclosure, I have every intention to do everything I can to ensure that these researchers, these founding fathers and mothers of UFOlogy, are given the credit that they deserve.

That they are able to participate in the post-Disclosure world and not be shut out by a bunch of smart-ass scientists from Harvard that just got religion; that they will be respected and honored. This is important and I want to put that on the record. Thank you.

BR: Hear, hear! Wonderful. That’s right. We’re standing on the shoulders of giants here. There are a lot of very brave men. One of the names that immediately occurred to me when you say that, of course, is Donald Kehoe...

PH: Yes, [unclear]?

SB: Sure.

BR: ...and his whole... They were heroes all.

SB: Kehoe. Hynek.

PH: McDonald.

SB: McDonald. But there’re a lot of them. Berliner and, ah...

BR: It’s a huge list.

BS: Oh God, I’m sorry. The name escapes me. But there are plenty still alive.

AW: Yeah. Dr. John Mack.

PH: John Mack. Yeah.

BR: Absolutely. We’ve got a bunch of them that we pay tribute to on the Camelot site, and there are many more who we may never even know about. It’s a team effort, and many of these people who have gone before us... and I hope that not too many will have to go after us, because, with a little bit of luck, we might be able to wrap this thing up, between us.

There are people all over the world, many different countries, many nationalities, people of different experience, different color. We’re all working together on this, because this is about the human race, and this is a thing that we have to work together on.

SB: I wish there was a way to reconcile, that we all get together on the same page, but, I think, it’s just the nature of things that that’s not probably going to happen. But, it won’t hurt if, when we have the opportunity, to acknowledge them the best we can. I think that will help, and we’ll see where things go.

VOICE: …In relation to many of my people in this conference, because there are not... [unclear] ... there is an issue of getting my people. I think that Gary McKinnon…

SB: I don’t know the person.

PH: Gary McKinnon.

SB: Oh, Gary McKinnon.

[many voices overlapping]

VOICE: …[unclear] we have to [unclear] ... somebody to say something.

SB: You think somebody’s going to mention the Gary McKinnon case?

KC: Well, Gary McKinnon has been getting...

VOICE: [unclear]

SB: …[unclear] agreement, probably.

KC: Well, we interviewed Gary McKinnon, and you certainly are welcome to view his video on our website. He’s getting a lot of attention in the UK. He’s got a lot of well-known musicians now backing him.

There have been fairly successful moves to keep him from being extradited from the UK to the US to stand trial. Whether or not that will ultimately be successful, I think there is a final ruling coming through, actually in the next week or two, I was told. So I don’t know where that’s going to go.

They’ve put through a number of different defenses for Gary. We at Camelot were consulting behind the scenes on that.

However, I have to say that Gary McKinnon and his group decided, in terms of defending him, not to raise the real card that he holds, which is that he found evidence of fleet-to-fleet transfers and off-planet, non-terrestrial officers that indicated what we know of as the secret space program, and therefore they decided not to use that in his defense. Okay? That was pretty much pushed to the side.

They are using another defense that we at Camelot did not recommend, but we wish him the absolute best. He’s a brilliant musician, I have to say. If you haven’t heard his music, I encourage you to do so.

But, on top of that, he’s also a brilliant mind, and he did come across some very interesting information when he did his hacking; and he was very naïve. He was incredibly brilliant at the same time as being naïve. But, he’s being used as a scapegoat by the Powers That Be.

What he could have done was to actually take this issue that we’re all discussing right here and now into a courtroom, which might have resulted in Disclosure on a whole different level; but, at the moment, it doesn’t appear that’s going to happen. Okay?

Now, whether he will be saved because he went this other route, I don’t know. But in answer to your question, that’s the story with Gary McKinnon.

VOICE: Well, I want to ask to make a mention of him and this issue.

SB: I’m sure David Griffin is going to mention him. He is Exopolitics United Kingdom. I think he’s speaking on Sunday.

VOICE: Because I think we have to take him as our hero and as the proof. Why is he still in jail if he didn’t find anything? So, … show a reference to him and the government… [unclear]

BR: We can do that, and we just have.

VOICE: [unclear, overtalk]

KC: Well, we’re going out over the airways.

BR: We just have.

VOICE: [unclear] Man has the right as [unclear] his own self, the right of humankind of knowing these secrets.

BR: Yes.

KC: That’s right.

BR: But he’s one of many heroes. This is the point.

[voice continues to overtalk]

BR/KC: Yes. Yeah.

VOICE: …[unclear] meet all together in two hours … make a short statement … and there is going to be a lot of press conference here [unclear]

KC: We’re happy to raise it tomorrow in the press conference. We’re happy to do this. We’ll raise the Gary McKinnon story.

SB: Well, the press can raise it. Let them ask.

VOICE: Don’t’ talk by yourself, as media, as a group, okay? Let’s meet all together and say we are going to say something about Gary McKinnon, and he represents humankind and wants to know this kind of secret.

KC: Desire to know the truth.

SB: Gary McKinnon is not going to be extradited. The Obama administration has no desire to do that. The reason they haven’t done anything immediately is because it would look awkward. It’s like a matter of priority of issues and so... but it’s inconceivable to me that it will happen.

But, of course, he has gone through a lot; but, that said, I, for one, do not support or encourage anybody to hack into government computers for any reason. Right? It is a form of civil disobedience. If you do it, be prepared to pay the price.

VOICE: Why not? They hack into ours. [laughter]

SB: And they should pay the price for that, right?

VOICE: …[continues talking / unclear / other voices overlapping]

KC: Let’s see, there’s a saying, and somebody, if I get the quote wrong, can correct me: In a time of deceit, acting in defense of the truth is a revolutionary act.

BR: Telling the truth is a revolutionary act -- that was George Orwell.

KC: And I have to say that that, in my opinion, what Gary McKinnon has done, and that, if we go fast-forward to the future, let’s say, the year 2050, when we all know the truth, Gary McKinnon will be in the forefront as one of the people that we have to thank as a revolutionary for being a hacker.

That’s my opinion of it, okay? And I understand that, Steve, you have a different view.

SB: No, no. I’m just saying…

[voices overlapping / unclear]

SB: I don’t want him to be harmed.

BR: Steve is saying that...

KC: But, what we are all about here is getting to the truth. That’s what this discussion has been about. We are claiming our right to know the secrets and there is a reason for that.

So, with that, is there anyone else that wants to say a closing statement or a suggestion or...

BR: I want Brian to say the last word.

BO’L: Well, just a quick remark and that is that almost everything that applies to ET/UFO/Disclosure also applies to free energy. It’s amazing how parallel and similar they are. It’s also amazing how many heroes in the free energy field – who’ve been assassinated, who’ve been threatened.

Now, it’s time for us all to stand and be counted, and to create the revolution – peaceful revolution.

KC: It’s a revolution in consciousness.

BO’L: Yes.

BR: Wonderful.

SB: The Truth! What a concept!

BO’L: It’ll set us free; but, first, it’ll piss us off.

KC: [laughs]

SB: Right. Okay. Thanks, Kerry. I appreciate it very much.

KC: Okay, thank you. Thank you very, very much.

AW: Thank you so much.

BR: Thank you, Alfred.

[crosstalk, music fades in]

BR: Good job.

SB: ...out in the world... you guys are the hardest-working people in the field.

Click here for the video interview

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**


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Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy