Greer : The Unknown Agenda
Barcelona, Spain, July
Cassidy (KC): Hi. I’m Kerry Cassidy from
Bill Ryan (BR): And I’m Bill Ryan. This is Sunday,
the 26th of July, 2009. Have I got that right? I personally
want to say that I’m delighted to be here with Steven
Of all the people who we get emails asking us to interview,
you are number one on quite a long list. The reason for that
is that people see Project Camelot as continuing to kick the
ball that was kicked off by the Disclosure Project back in
1993. You started something that we’re doing our best
to support you with in terms of bringing the truth to the world.
Steven Greer (SG): Oh, good. Thank you.
BR: We want to thank you for that.
SG: Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you.
KC: So we have some questions for you, but they might
not be the most comfortable of questions.
SG: Oh, I can take any questions.
KC: Okay. And we’ve heard that you’re not
a wilting violet, as they call it, or whatever. So what we’re
wondering here... because we have different philosophies, I
think, and different approaches, and I think that’s really
I know that we started out, maybe, at the same place in terms
of we’re taking witness testimony – and certainly
you did – and that tactic was very effective and has
stimulated us to go down the road we went on. We’ve been
doing this for a little over three years now.
I just wondered if you have a philosophy that you feel like,
or a trajectory, that brought you from witness testimony to
free energy, and if you could talk a little bit about that
SG: Well, obviously the Disclosure Project involves
many elements. One is the disclosure of the fact that we’re
The other is that there are highly classified projects that
have been run illegally for about 50, over 50 years, dealing
And, number three, you cannot say that this has been kept
secret and it’s real without giving la raison d’etre...
Why would something like this be kept secret?
Now, in the early days it could be argued that, well, there
were religious issues, that the people would panic at the idea
that there was life in outer space... or that there were theological
objections. And in fact these still exist.
I had a junior Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientist say the
reason that some of the information about the ancient structures
on Mars has been withheld is that it would “collapse
the foundations of all orthodox religions in the world.” To
which I said: Great!
I mean, it’s time people who think the world’s
6,000 years old and we rode dinosaurs bareback need to get
BR: We agree with that.
KC: [laughs] Yeah.
SG: Okay, so that was one area. But the largest one...
and this is when everything went deep black in October 1954 – we
know it to the day – was because they had actually figured
out, and mastered, the electromagnetic / gravitic propulsion
systems. So that was 55 years ago.
SG: Okay, so 55 years ago there was the ability to master
those technologies. And obviously, when the Rockefeller Commission,
that reorganized the Department of Defense and the CIA, was
put together by Eisenhower, what they did was reorganize it
in a way so that these sort of issues were handled under work
for other programs, and aerospace contracting entities, and
high-tech entities, and really took it out of the oversight
of the president and the Congress.
And that’s when it all “went south” and
has been that way ever since.
The reason for that is because, if you acknowledge that UFOs
are real, the very next thing that any bona fide scientist
or policy analyst is going to ask is: Well, how in the
hell are they getting from one star system to another?
And when that question is asked, it will be answered, because
we have people on our team who can answer it in great detail.
BR: Yeah, they’re not going around in rocket ships.
SG: And when that is answered – I’m trying
to finish one thought here – when that is answered, you’re
going to then see the end of oil, gas, coal, nuclear power,
all of it. There’s a five-hundred-trillion-dollar asset
base that they’re sitting on and protecting. Two or three
hundred people in corporations in the world control half the
wealth of the planet – the net worth of the planet.
So the secrecy has to be understood within a larger macro-economic
geopolitical crisis where there’s been accretion of enormous
power in the hands of relatively few people, and that this
has gotten worse, not better, since the gilded age of the Industrial
Revolution’s dawn. It’s actually worse now than
it was in the time of Cornelius Vanderbilt and the Rockefellers.
It’s worse now than it was.
KC: Yeah, I definitely understand.
SG: So that, I think is… And so our focus, as
we’ve learned more and more about the reasons for the
secrecy and the kinds of technologies that are extant, is that
we have concluded that it’s very, very important to be
able to bring out those energy systems – at least what
I call the “Level One” systems, the ones that you
could put on a box over here... something about the size of
a coffee table. And I’ve seen these.
Now, of course, seeing them and being able to bring them out
and having people release them is another matter. But I’ve
They extract energy from... some would call the zero-point
energy field, some would call it the quantum vacuum flux field...
whatever you want to call it. But in the fabric of space-time
around us there’s enormous electromagnetic potential
that can be touched into and brought out, and that is one of
the practical implications of disclosure.
I mean, there are many implications. One is informational,
one is diplomatic contact, and one is the issue of the science
and technology which could transform the planet, get us off
of oil, stop global warming, end the crisis of the have and
the have-nots and the poverty in the world. So that, I think,
resonates with many people.
There are a certain number of people who are interested in
extraterrestrial life. There’s a much larger number of
people who are concerned about the environment, energy crisis,
the poverty in the world, etcetera.
KC: So, is what you’re saying that what you were
propelled towards is the latter? Because I know your emphasis
is now really free energy, or it seems to be.
SG: No it isn’t. No, no, no.
KC: Well, it seems to be. Maybe I misunderstand…
SG: You need to not mis-state my priorities. Let me
be very clear on this. We have three programs going on with
equal bore – equal bore – simultaneously.
KC: Oh, really? Okay.
SG: Number one is CSETI, the Center for the Study
of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, which is an interplanetary,
interstellar, diplomatic initiative. That was the founding
entity and it’s still the primary focus.
The second is the Disclosure Project. That started as Project
Starlight when I was briefing the CIA director and the
Clintons and all these people.
It then evolved into the Disclosure Project when Clinton said: I
won’t do it because I’ll end up like Jack Kennedy. And
the Congress people that we met with said: This is too
big a fish for us to reel in. We’re not going to do
So it kind of devolved onto our shoulders. Then that’s
why we did in 2001 – to correct the date – the
National Press Conference event and the Disclosure Project.
And that still continues. We still continue to do that.
Then the third is the OrionProject.org and the focus on trying
to identify people who have an understanding of these new physics
and sciences so we can bring out some of the practical applications.
SG: So those three things are going on with equal bore.
We have teams of people working on all of them.
KC: Oh, I see.
SG: I’m sort of the coordinator or head of those
three projects, but they’re interrelated. They’re
actually three sides of a pyramid or whatever... not pyramid,
but three sides of one entity and three facets that are interlocking.
KC: I had a misunderstanding. Part of the reason is
SG: No, that’s good that you brought it up because
a lot of people do have that misunderstanding.
KC: …we get a newsletter. The Orion Project,
or however you refer to it, newsletter comes into my inbox
and it is, you know, exclusively talking about more of the
free energy side of things. So it’s a misconception,
you know, but is out there, as you say. It’s very interesting
to hear that you’re continuing these other…
SG: Yeah. And people have to understand... You know
people say: What about disclosure?
I say: We have the testimony of 110 of these military
witnesses out there. We have DVDs and other materials and
books out there with thousands of pages of government documents.
We have put this positive proof and testimony out there and
that then has launched a worldwide disclosure movement in many,
many countries, as you know.
SG: At this point, when we started that endeavor, it
was 30 or 40 percent of the public thought these were real.
Now it’s 80 percent. Some countries – in polls
that they did recently here in Spain it was 90-some percent – think
that we’re not alone and ETs are real.
So we feel that the big over-arching strategy of establishing
that fact happened. What has not happened is, at least within
America, an official acknowledgement of the issue and the ending
of the secrecy. But this is due to a complex problem that I
work on behind the scenes, for that’s where the problem
The problem is within Majestic. And the problem is within
conventional political leaders and the military-industrial
When we started this effort I had about a third of this Majestic
group who thought what we were doing was something they would
support. Now it’s 70 percent. Now the other 30 percent
would probably like to see me dead.
But the point is – and they’re vicious – there
are 70 percent of them now who are really lining up. This includes
the elements within Majestic that are in Europe, that are within
the Masonics, that are within a lot of secret organizations
that are fed up with the secrecy and know that we’re
at the end of how far we can take this silly game of secrecy
and secret power.
So a lot of the work that I’ve been doing, and it has
directly to do with disclosure, has to do with trying to fix
that highly dysfunctional dynamic which cannot be ignored.
You cannot pretend like those lions aren’t out lurking
in the jungle. You don’t have to capitulate, but you
have to try to educate them and give them another vision.
One thing I say to the people is that people who are addicted
to secret power, it’s... Kissinger once said power is
the ultimate aphrodisiac... that then the secret power would
be that on steroids and Viagra and every other thing – quite
And so, one of the real issues becomes what can you… You
can’t just take away. You have to give.
So my job is to try to also give some of these leaders, both
conventional leaders and people who are within these classified
projects, a new vision – a vision that can guide the
world out of its current direction, into a path of peace, safety,
justice, free energy, and a whole new transformation of our
civilization on this planet – very quickly.
Because, you know, we’ve run out of time, in my opinion.
I don’t think we have another 50 or 100 years to fritter
KC: As it happens, neither do they. I mean, what we
get from our secret witnesses and from people that are exposed
to the Illuminati philosophy constantly is that our time is
running out, in terms of…
Like, we just heard from a secret witness – and I’m
running this by you to hear whether this coincides with what
you know – that there is around ten months left of food
before it runs out on the planet, and that there’s another
three to four years’ worth of oxygen.
I mean, I don’t know if this is down to the minute or
not, or whether it's more vague than it was stated to me, or
more... You know, where you would fall in that category, in
terms of how you understand that.
SG: Let me say that there are a lot of… My father-in-law
used to famously say: Paper does not refuse ink; and
in the modern era, that the computer screen does not refuse
digits. So, in other words, anything can be said.
Now, one has to… My own assessment of that is that
there are competing interests that try to use whatever axis
that they have to provide a certain paradigm that is highly
eschatological. The eschatological axis within Majestic is
a very powerful one.
I remember meeting with a member of a Royal Family in Europe
back in the ‘90s and his entire purpose in providing
funding to abduction researchers was to – and I know
who they are, all the mainline ones – was so that they
would put the information out to the public so that the public
would learn to hate enough of the aliens so that we could have
an interplanetary war, which would be the Armageddon that would
precipitate the return of Christ.
KC: Yeah, we’ve heard this.
SG: Now, this was a very specific Opus Dei perspective
and that is really what is driving… It’s like
Ahmadinejad in Iran saying that, well, it’d be okay if
we went to nuclear war with Israel because that would force
this Twelfth Imam, which is their return of their Christ, to
return to Iran.
SG: So this eschatological end the world perspective
KC: So you’re actually saying... Just to cut to
the chase here, you’re saying that this man’s testimony,
to what I just said about ten months and four years, is basically
him being programmed by the controllers, in a certain sense.
SG: Well, it’s “through a glass dimly”.
In other words, yes, we’re headed for a crisis. Yes,
we’re headed towards a hiatus, can I call it
that, in the situation.
But what they don’t understand is that it is the end
of one era and the opening of another. It isn’t the end
of life on Earth. It is not going to be the end of the human
race on this planet. These are all…
KC: We would certainly agree with that.
SG: This is… And so the conflation of certain
misinterpreted spiritual traditions, whether it’s from
the Book of Revelations or elsewhere, or the Mayan calendar
and 2012, has created this sort of eschatological juggernaut – which
is very Scientological, it’s very Majestic, and it has
a lot of underpinnings within the philosophy of why the secrecy
has continued on like it is.
This is one major axis of why the secrecy is continuing. The
other one is the technological and money and control, the macro-economic
control of the planet.
My point to people is that... For example, now I’ve
been doing this for 19 years and I’ve had… You
know, if you brief the CIA director you’ve had some good
access, and that’s 16 years ago. My family put the first
man on the Moon. So I have had access to people within classified
projects for a lot of my life.
For example – and I know that we’re going to probably
disagree on this because I saw what you wrote on your blog
after my talk last night – there are people who have
been exposed to what they wanted them to see. This Bob Lazar
was one that they then allow to speak out.
Now the question is: What’s the agenda behind that
I have had more than a dozen people who have worked in facilities
in Dulce and in Pine Gap in Australia and other places where
they have actually been growing the Gray and Reptilian
species that people think are ETs.
And the people who’ve been in the projects think they’re
working alongside an alien – and they’re not. They’re
absolutely what are called nano-bio-machines and they
are Programmed Life Forms. There is no question that
that is going on.
So the larger question becomes: If someone comes up to
you with just an empirical observation, what is it they’re
Now I’m going to cross over into something even more
We have some people at Lockheed, and another program... I
can’t say where it is but it’s in the South in
an underground facility, and its chief scientist is someone
I knew very well.
They have developed electromagnetic systems where they can
put someone into a state, and they can go into – and
this gets into a cosmological, complex discussion now – a
lower astral, or denser astral field. And some would call this demonic.
They can actually see beings and creatures there and bring
them in three-dimensional and materialize in flesh and blood – through
So a lot of these things that people are seeing have nothing
to do with interstellar and extraterrestrial.
So when I’m talking... when I talk about the interstellar
civilizations that also have transdimensional capability...
You can’t go through interstellar space at the speed
of light or less.
SG: But there’s a cosmological indigestion happening
within ufology and disclosure that I find disturbing because
people are conflating interdimensional with extraterrestrial with PLFs,
that are Programmed Life Forms, man-made.
All of this is being put together as if it is one thing, and
it isn’t. It’s, unfortunately, much more complex
than this. This is exactly why…
BR: We would agree with that as well. It’s very
SG: This is why, when Martin Cannon, back in the late ‘80s,
put together a 2000-footnoted paper and collection proving
the military-human involvement with abductions, and that the
creatures they were using were not ET... It wasn’t some
alliance between Majestic and these ETs. The ETs wouldn’t
bother with ’em.
Now, I say they’re aliens, but they’re
not extraterrestrials. Okay? And now we’re getting
into… and people say I’m being cheeky. I’m
not, because these are very bizarre creatures. Some of them
even… I’m going to take it one step further.
You’ve all heard of Roswell, and you’ve all heard
that there have been a number of electromagnetic weapons systems
that have targeted and knocked down interstellar vehicles...
not at a great kill rate in the early days. – I
hate to use the words kill rate. It’s terrible. – But
it’s become more and more efficient since SDI, and since
the ‘90s, particularly in the last five or ten years.
What happened, however, in the early days... They had enough
crude stuff. And of course, we had things like the Philadelphia
Experiment – which did not happen in Philadelphia. It
happened in Rhode Island. That was just a cover story... that’s
another whole discussion.
But that was in the ‘40s. So there were very advanced
electronics that were already being used. And by the time the
extraterrestrials showed up when we were detonating nuclear
weapons, we were able, at Roswell, at our only nuclear bomb
squadron, to have one of these weapons and a radar dome, or
configuration, that caused the two of those to crash.
SG: There were bodies on that. Some of them were living,
and I have a witness who actually handled one of the living
ones as late as 1950-’51 here in Virginia not far from
where I live, at Camp Pearry [spells] P-E-A-R-R-Y,
a very top secret facility. [Ed note: Greer means Camp Peary,
Army experimental training center near Williamsburg]
Now, what’s interesting is that that genetic material
from some of those bodies has subsequently been cloned, from
a number of different species.
Now, you know, I have a daughter with a Ph.D. in neuroscience
and genetics from the most prestigious university in the world.
What I’ve done is, I’ve looked at this, sort of...
What the current state of neuroscience is in the non-classified
world is that if they wished to, they could take cells from
a human and clone them. Absolutely.
SG: Now, imagine what has existed within the classified
world, because these were the people who were the… These
were the humans who were the spiritual descendants of Mengele
and the Nazis, Wernher von Braun and that whole cell.
KC: You’re talking about the scientists.
SG: The scientists who were brought into these classified
projects, and who were at the foundation of the CIA and the
early space program. So the highly compartmented programs that
deal with this issue…
SG: And this is the thing: Everyone talks about antigravity
and this and that, but what they forget are the enormous advances
that have happened between the early ‘40s and now in
genetics and bioengineering and neuroscience.
Those have gone into application where they now have created
these creatures that people think: Oh, that’s an
extraterrestrial. I say: It is NOT an extraterrestrial!
So the whole thing has deliberately become confused so that
people will make an assessment that there are the good aliens
and the bad aliens.
And if we step into that “cowboys and Indians” mindset,
they can then divide the human race into another war footing
that will fulfill the Majestic plan that was hatched in the ‘50s,
that will take us, as Douglas McArthur said in his last address
to the Congress, to interplanetary war, which is the World
War III they want.
SG: So most of retail ufology – I would say 90-plus
percent of it – has embedded within it this message and
this information and these images for the purpose of Majestic.
Now, I think people do it completely innocently because…
BR: I want to ask a direct question here because this
is personal, and I haven’t said this on camera before.
So here we go. I’m an abductee, and I’m a mountaineer.
I was abducted out of my tent in December, 1981 in the Himalayas
on the slopes of Makalu, which is in Nepal on the border of
Tibet. And that wasn’t done by the military.
This was done in December, in winter in the Himalayas. I was
taken out of my tent, floated over the glacier in the middle
of the night and it was minus 40 degrees. This wasn’t
the military who were doing that. They couldn’t do that.
SG: I’m not saying all contact has been military.
I’m being very specific. I’m saying that there’s
enough… Let’s look: If you have a nugget of gold
and you dump a whole bunch of fool’s gold on it…
SG: …and no one’s doing an assay. And the
question becomes: What part of it is extraterrestrial,
what part of it is interdimensional…
SG: …what part of it is manmade? And
what part of it is some mixed-up, where people...?
And here I’ll make it a little more complicated. There
are people who’ve had ET contact and when these classified
projects find out about it they will then target them for an
abduction so that their paradigm and their perception of this
will become confused. This is…
KC: Okay. I think what happens here... We are aware
of this level that you’re talking about. We’re
aware of all these different dimensions because we’ve
basically... (“dimensions” – not dimensions, but “dimensions
of this argument”) ... because we’ve been exposed
to these levels by different secret witnesses, okay?
But, and I think if we have a disagreement, what it is, is...
I don’t know if it’s completely, you know?
It’s not an either/or question. It’s a how
much? It’s a percentage, as you say.
It’s going to be: Is there, sometime, abductions that
are ET-related that are real ET-related – okay? – and
handled by a certain group of ETs? Is there a MILAB element
to it, and is that maybe the largest portion? Highly probable.
But is it exclusively that there are only good ETs? I think
that when you extrapolate that, that’s where I have a
SG: I think the problem is with the caricature of the…
KC: Because I think that that’s, philosophically,
a problem of a limited way of looking at reality.
SG: No, I think the problem is a Manichean
view that has to divide entire species into good and bad. This
is precisely what Hitler did when he would say, you know, the
Jews are bad and they’re dirty and they’re this… I
think we have to be extremely careful…
KC: I don’t think it’s necessary to do that
quite so much as it is in terms of the overall… I mean,
were talking universes. Okay? We’re talking multiple
species out there that go beyond this solar system, certainly…
SG: Oh, I’m very aware of that.
KC: …and we’re talking about life in general,
SG: But the point is that…
KC: I don’t think we can sit here and make a statement
like what I heard you say on stage yesterday, which was: There
are no bad ETs. I mean, how absurd.
SG: No, I think you could say that there is no evidence
that the planet has been invaded by hostile – is
the word I used – civilizations that have an intent…
KC: So far, to you; that you have not… In other
SG: You can’t prove a negative. This is axiomatic.
What I can say…
KC: Well, then we have a problem. [laughs]
SG: You can’t prove a negative.
KC: In other words, that’s the point.
SG: No, no. But it is the point. You can’t prove
a negative, but what you can do is go with the evidence that
you do have.
One of the sets of evidence we have through CSETI, which has
gone around the world and made contact all over the world with
thousands of people... We have never had a harmful event happen.
We have never had anything resembling anything that has frightened
or harmed anyone on the contact team.
On the other hand, we have had members of our team that have
been targeted with these psychotronic-related military-type
abduction events, including myself.
KC: Right. I agree.
SG: So, what I have to go with is the evidence that
I have. I also know that there’s the stage craft,
to use an Institute for Strategic Studies document that I have,
that talks about the stage craft of abductions because of its
psychological warfare value to the agenda of an Us versus
Them Manichean worldview
that would redound to the benefit of the military-industrial
complex. So this is very circular.
I think that what I’m saying is one has to be very careful
if you’re going to be involved with disclosure and contact
in saying: This group is bad, this group is good.
We’re good and we’re bad. And we’re slipping
right back into the Israelis versus the Palestinians, the Jews
versus the Christians, the Muslims versus the whatever…
KC: Okay, but this is not where we’re going…
SG: But if you say that there are bad aliens
that are working with a secret government, then…
KC: The language is actually Service to Others versus
Service to Self, and that, in itself, is also a matter of degree.
So it’s not really good. Anyone…
SG: But you can’t judge. See, here’s the
KC: Well, none of us can. That’s my whole point
SG: Well, that’s my whole point!
KC: It’s a matter of degree.
SG: And I think before one starts going down the path
of The sky is falling! and we start unleashing this
Manichean worldview of Here
are the ones that are Service to Others and here’s the
ones that are selfish... I would say that there’s
some enlightened self-interest everywhere.
SG: And let’s back this up just a little further.
Let’s say that these civilizations…
KC: Especially by the invaders.
SG: By the who?
KC: [laughs] If there’s an invasion race,
then enlightened self-interest is going to be the predominant
model by which they’re going to operate, right?
SG: And, you know, you’re entitled to that. I
KC: I’m positing. All I’m doing here… Look,
until it actually happens in black and white…
SG: Look, where have they invaded? Who has been invaded?
And here’s the…
KC: There is evidence. In other words, you
can get evidence on both sides of the question.
SG: Well, but to characterize it as an invasion... What
if there is an interstellar group that have different… Different
ones of them have different functions. For example…
SG: Okay, I’m going to take this a little further.
There’s one group that has a very specific function.
You might call this the Noah’s Ark function,
that this planet is under tremendous environmental stress.
We’re losing thousands of species and plants and animals.
I have spoken with people about the landing in Provence, of
this ET craft in a lavender field, and there were these little
ETs out picking lavender. It sounds hilarious. What were they
BR: Just like the movie, yeah.
SG: Absolutely happened and it left physical trace.
Could there be a human genome project that’s trying to
protect the human genome and a genome project for
Gaia, the Earth?
There could be all kinds of things going on that are beyond
our ability to say: That’s happening by people who
are selfish and invaders. And that’s happening
by people who are the good ones.
KC: Exactly. Yes.
SG: I think that that sort of dichotomy and dualism
that I read on your blog is the exact script that Majestic
would want people to buy into to support interplanetary war.
I think that there is another…
KC: Yeah. I think that the paranoia over interplanetary
war per se, and that scenario, is laudable, okay.
In a certain way we understand that you’re coming from
a heartfelt perspective when you talk about Let’s
not get caught up in polarities. Okay?
But what we don’t want to do is analyze this scene,
this scenario, and the realities that are out there, and say
we’ve come to definitive statement where we can say: There
are only good ETs.
Now, let me tell you why that’s dangerous as well, because
what that does is leave people, humans, and humanity possibly
in general, in a vulnerable position. They are then going around
following ET like the Pied Piper down whatever road they’re
SG: No. I’ve always said, and unfortunately you
haven’t read my books and things, but…
KC: Actually I have.
SG: Well, I have made it very clear that there are two
things that are equally dangerous – the deification of
these visitors or the demonization of them.
SG: Both are equally dangerous, and I’ve said
this since the ‘90s.
KC: Then we’re in agreement. But what you said
on stage was not that.
SG: I didn’t deify them and I didn’t demonize
them. My point is that we’re living in a universe together;
we’re going to have to live together in that universe.
SG: The solutions are not going to be name-calling and We’re
better than you are and Those are in service to
self and Those in service to others and this
I think we have to look at this from a much larger picture,
and that is not only Earth, but the whole cosmos is going through
a quantum moment.
KC: Right, that’s true.
SG: It is not just an Earth moment. It’s a universal
SG: …the hallmark of which is universal peace,
the hallmark of which is that. And so it is also true...
KC: The ideal would be...
SG: ...that interstellar civilizations are not allowed
to leave their biosphere until they have become in agreement
for peace. Now, and…
KC: That’s an assumption.
SG: This has been proven, because if these civilizations…
KC: No way. Nothing’s been proven on this planet
to that degree of sophistication. There’s no way…
SG: Well, if they were here and they were invading and
they were hostile, they would not have waited for us to have
the kind of weapons we have today. They would have absolutely
shut this civilization down in 1945.
KC: On the contrary... I mean, we have to actually get
into a whole socio-political look at what it is to be an ET
space-faring culture in search of planetoids or planets, and
building new environments, and then what you do with them.
In a sense, you can actually take the Earth as a microcosm
and you can look at How did it go when we took over different
SG: Yeah. But see, this is the whole problem…
KC: …and what was the model? Then we
get to space and we also have to figure…
SG: This is a huge problem. You’re engaging in
an anthropocentric projection onto interstellar civilizations…
KC: As above, so below. In other words…
SG: Well, so in your belief. But I think that you’re
completely involved in this.
KC: All I’m saying is that we’re part of
the universe and you can’t eliminate... And there’s
no definitive decision on this part. You’re making absolute
SG: Do you think our classified projects have traveled
SG: They have not.
KC: We’ve got evidence that they have.
SG: Well, I’d love to see you prove it.
BR: We don’t have evidence but in May 2001 you
said that they have superluminal capability.
BR: What have we done? Gone to Pluto with superluminal
ability? It takes five seconds.
SG: No, because they’re not allowed to use it.
Now here’s something that… There is a quarantine
on this planet until we become peaceful. This is why, if you
KC: There is a philosophy that there’s
SG: No. There is. If you look at even what
Neil Armstrong said after…
KC: Why? Because an ET told you? I mean, really, let’s
get down to it. We’re all in communication with different
SG: Well, let’s get back to the cover-up with
what Neil Armstrong was heard saying. It’s in Timothy
Good’s book, Above Top Secret. You can read
SG: And I’m sure you have. You’ve read it.
KC: A mind-controlled astronaut is what you’re
talking about. You’re gonna give me testimony from a
SG: No, no.
BR: Let’s hear where this goes. I’m interested.
SG: He said that when... We were basically warned off
the Moon, and that’s why we didn’t continue to
KC: And I believe these warnings exist. There has been
evidence that we’re warned off Mars because certain craft
have never made it there, have been shot down, have disappeared,
have had technical problems that haven’t been explained
SG: Well, and one can put a xenophobic spin on that.
Or one can say that perhaps there’s a wiser cosmic order
that says that until a civilization reaches a certain amount
of civility for the civilization, and peace, they are not allowed
to travel amongst the stars; that the entry ticket is peace.
And I think that is the situation.
KC: Okay, I understand that’s your philosophy.
SG: No, it’s not my philosophy. It’s what
the evidence… This is not how I started out. This is
what I have found to be true from many different witness testimonies
and the observation overall and accurate…
KC: But our witness testimony would contradict that.
So what do you do with that?
SG: Well, fine, I’d like to speak to them.
KC: Yeah, absolutely, and maybe we’ll have to
compare notes. You know, really, to be honest with you, this
is valuable, because what happens, for better or for worse,
is we’re both out there. We’re both investigating
these questions and they are open questions. Actually, the
SG: They are. But I think it’s rather unhelpful
that you go onto a blog and say that what I’m saying
and doing is sinister.
KC: But I said it was…
SG: I think that, you know, I have never said anything
harmful about you.
KC: It’s insidious. The reason it’s insidious
SG: Insidious and this and that.
KC: …it leaves the Earth vulnerable…
SG: And I think this is exactly the kind of thing, and
I’m going to absolutely... You know, you invited me to
SG: I’m going to provide an interview. If you
want to over-talk everything I say, you can over-talk what
KC: You over-talk us.
SG: But I am telling you that… But I’m
being interviewed. So the point is…
KC: [laughs] It’s mutual. See, you don’t
know this and I’m sorry we didn’t have time to
tell you our philosophy of how we conduct an interview, but
I did kind of warn you…
SG: You obviously want to have a debate.
KC: … that we have differences of opinions.
SG: We have differences of opinion, and that’s
fine, but I think the most dangerous thing we can do is with...
See, everyone has partial information.
SG: To start making sweeping judgments that are negative...
And you can say: Well, it’s not negative. We’re
just saying that they’re in service to self versus service
to others, and couch it however you wish.
But if we go down that path, we’re already creating
a new cosmological Us versus Them, which is the absolute
recapitulation of the mistake on Earth for the last 10,000
years. I think we can do better than that. I think we have
to learn to look at these things…
And let’s say that everything that your philosophy and
how you’re viewing this is correct. If it’s a hundred
percent correct, I would still say the path of wisdom is education…
SG: …elucidation, engagement peacefully, higher
states of consciousness – all of this.
SG: I don’t think it consists in characterizations,
name-calling, what have you. Now that goes on on the diplomatic
front and between nations on the Earth, and I think we have
to be very careful not to engage in that sort of anthropocentric
projection of the current state of duality of the human condition
on these visitors. I think it may be much more difficult to
make those kinds of assessments.
But if we go down that path, what we’ll be doing is
that we’ll be dragging the baggage of the old era into
this pivotal time, this embryonic time, where we’re trying
to transition to a new civilization – the hallmark of
which will be universal peace.
I don’t think we’re going to be going into a period
of time of competing planetary systems having wars. I think
that this is – all of that – is the Scientological
view and it’s many of the eschatologists’ view.
I think that actually we’re going to go through a quantum
transformation that’s global and interplanetary that
will make this quite clear in the coming years, if not months.
I think that time is getting very short for how much more
time we’re going to have before there’s this large
And I think the other thing is to say... I would say to people: If
there is a civilization that is here for their own purely
selfish interest, and have not a shred of altruism or concern
for humanity or Earth, those are the beings I would want
to meet with first.
And I’ve said this for years, because you need a diplomatic
initiative to North Korea and Iran and China more than you
do to Great Britain, if you’re an American, let’s
say. So this is…
KC: Absolutely, but you can’t be in denial of
SG: There’s no denial here. I’m not some
sort of Pollyanna fool. And that characterization of me being
in denial... I’m not in denial about anything. I’m
just saying that...
KC: Well, I… Wait, wait, wait. You’re personalizing
this in a way that it’s not personal. In other words,
what I said is I didn’t direct it at you. I said…
SG: Jan can give me what you wrote on the blog. I’ll
show you what you wrote on the blog.
KC: Excuse me. I said that what you said on stage was insidious.
And it’s insidious because what it does is leave, again,
humanity… Look, let’s both agree here…
BR: It’s a real misdirect.
KC: We both love…
BR: It’s a real misdirect.
SG: [to Bill] [unclear]
BR: It’s a misdirect.
KC: We both love humanity. We’re both here to
make sure that we make it through this next era. Okay?
KC: And we can say we have a common goal, in that sense.
KC: When I say it’s insidious, I’m not saying
you personally are insidious. What I’m saying
is what you’re saying leads to an insidious state of
affairs if people out there were to become disarmed and completely
vulnerable and allow, like I said, ET to take over “the
sovereignty” of the Earth and of humanity to develop…
SG: This is not at all… I never suggested that.
KC: … to develop on its own. But there are implications
to what you’re saying when you say: All ETs are good.
SG: Your implications about that.
KC: When we’re using the words good and bad...
Let’s be honest, we’re using the words good and bad because
we have to use language and we’re just using it in a
KC: … to cover a very wide spectrum of what it
means to be good, philosophically, and what it means to be
bad, philosophically. We’re not naïve, and we’re
not looking at this in a black and white way, so let’s
not go there.
SG: We have to be very careful because that slips into
that very quickly. That language slips into that paradigm very,
KC: Sure, and it could be misleading. I appreciate that.
SG: And I think it is misleading, but I think
the other thing, that it’s also very dangerous. I’m
not at all suggesting that humans disarm. My whole message
is about humans empowering, not only in consciousness, but
in organization and every other way.
BR: We agree.
SG: And moreover, you said that we need to be armed.
Well, yeah. Armed with what? I think that knowledge…
KC: That’s the other discussion. We can talk… That’s
SG: It is spiritual, and this is the chief
purpose of CSETI.
KC: Knowledge is to question constantly. What we’re
not positing is answers here, so much as Let’s keep
And at no point do we decide that “all ETs are good” because
suddenly we have a paradigm that says: You cannot leave
the planet beyond a certain point unless you believe in “peace” and
unless you have obtained a certain level of civilization.
That means that you are there for good, all good, and therefore
better than humanity. There’s sort of an implication
SG: And your alternative would be what? Conflict with
the ones who aren’t good?
BR: No, that’s polarizing it in a way that we
KC: It’s a model of universes, multi dimensions,
that is more complex.
BR: You’re polarizing it.
SG: What’s your answer then?
BR: My answer…
SG: What’s your answer to these ones that are
in service to self?
KC: It’s complex. It’s more complex.
SG: The ones that you see…
KC: There are no limits. Go ahead.
BR: Okay. My response to this is to agree with you that
it’s a very complex situation and there may be alien
agendas that we are not able to understand. Just like the farmer
can understand what the farmer’s doing, but not what
the veterinary surgeon is doing. You know?
If you approach a wild animal because you want to give it
some food, the wild animal’s going to run away because
it doesn’t trust the human.
BR: There are all sorts of aspects to this that we may
be very presumptuous in our ability to understand. But my point
is that it’s dangerous... And I’m not
even saying that it’s a deliberate misdirect, but I do
believe it was...
Personally I believe it was a misdirect to lead people to
believe, with the authority position that you have in the UFO
community, that if anybody feels that all… that anything
other than All ETs are friendly, then they’re
somehow working on the side of the Illuminati!
That’s a polarization that’s not true. We don’t
agree with that – at all! We think that there’s
a big maybe category, where for sure some
ETs are friendly.
BR: I’ve met some of them, personally.
BR: I don’t even think that my abduction was ill-intended.
I think that this was a program in some way for something,
which I’m doing now. You may have had a parallel experience.
But I don’t know what’s happening. I’m
willing to roll with that wave, because I don’t think
they intended any harm to me. But they sure as hell weren’t
military. That wasn’t a MILAB operation.
SG: No, but my point is… Here’s what I
BR: But we don’t know these things. We
SG: My point is that there’s no evidence that
these visitors are hostile…
BR: Sorry. Give me 20 seconds, yeah?
KC: Actually, there is…
BR: But we don’t know – hang on. We don’t
know, but neither do you. And you shouldn’t
say that you know and you don’t. That’s my point.
SG: Well, actually…
KC: Yeah, let’s get to the place where, you know,
the fact is…
SG: I’m saying there is…
BR: …irresponsible because he doesn’t know,
and you’re presuming to know…
BR: …and you’re capitalizing on your authority
position in the UFO community and that’s irresponsible.
You’re leading people who are feeding off your words,
and you shouldn’t do that. You should be very…
SG: No, I am totally not irresponsible. I’m trying
to do this very responsibly…
SG: …because I know what’s at stake if
people are led into the path of panic and polarity and duality.
BR: But we’re not doing that.
SG: And this is absolutely the impression…
BR: And you’re giving the opposite impression,
saying: Don’t worry about a damn thing.
SG: No, no.
BR: And that’s equally bad!
SG: I’m not saying Don’t worry.
I’m saying… Let me tell you…
KC: Why not just enlighten awareness.
SG: Can I answer any of this?
BR: Do it. Go on.
SG: It’s too long…
KC: [laughs] I think you’re answering
it. I think you’ve been answering, but go ahead.
SG: Is that? Because no, you haven’t heard my
answer yet. My answer is what I consistently say, is that there’s
no evidence that they’re hostile and that we have to
be in an armed position, in a Star Wars SDI position.
And that dealing with it in that way is the last thing that
we should be doing.
BR: I agree with that.
SG: So, whether or not…
SG: Let me finish.
BR: Wait a minute.
SG: I cannot say that there is… You can’t
prove a negative. I’ve said this three or four times.
I can go with the evidence I’ve seen. Moreover, I can
go with the experience of 19 years, of thousands of people
in CSETI expeditions and experiences we’ve had with these
visitors... none of which has been fearsome, negative, invasive.
None of this sort.
The other point that I have to make is that if it were true
that there were civilizations that had self-interest and were
going around the cosmos colonizing and invading different worlds
or planetoids or what have you, then I would say that those
are the civilizations we need to find a way to engage. And
it isn’t going to be down the barrel of a laser weapon
or an electromagnetic pulse weapon.
KC: I think you’re making a jump. I mean, I have
to say here...
SG: Let me finish. I haven’t finished my answer.
KC: You’re making a jump to Star Wars from us
just saying there may be ETs with some self-interest guiding
SG: Well, but let’s take a step back from humanity
for a moment and look at this through the eyes… Let’s
say there is a civilization like you’re describing.
BR: What civilization are we describing?
SG: The ones that you think are not in service to others,
but in service to self.
BR: We think they may have agendas that are not necessarily
in our interest. That’s not a polarized position.
SG: Right. But let’s say that’s the case…
KC: And it doesn’t mean we want to shoot them
in the head, either.
SG: Okay, but let’s say that’s true. I don’t
think it is true but maybe I’m wrong. It’s possible,
I mean. I don’t pretend to know everything. Maybe I’m
But let’s say that’s true. What might have instigated
Now, let’s go back 100 years. We’re in horse-and-buggies
and rifles and things. My grandmother, born in the late 1800’s
post-reconstruction South, saw her son design the Lunar Module,
put the first man on the Moon, and now her grandson doing what
We’ve gone from horse and buggies to the capacity for
interstellar travel and antigrav, and dematerialization and
transdimensional technologies, from gunpowder and the early
stages of the Industrial Revolution. At the same time we’ve
gone from rifles and machine guns to thermonuclear weapons.
Is it a coincidence that the sort of Pandora’s Box that
opened when we started detonating thermonuclear weapons was
because it was having an effect beyond just the Earth, transdimensionally?
Is it possible that the trajectory they saw our civilization
going on, these ones you think may not have our best interest
in heart, may have seen us going on a trajectory that, if it
continued on that trajectory would lead to us going into their
neighborhood with weapons of mass destruction, with our unchecked
simian tendency towards war-making and what have you?
So, I’m trying to say let’s look at this for just
a moment through another perspective that’s non-human,
if we can. It’s very difficult because we are human.
KC: I met Robert Solace. He watched the craft fly over,
okay? In Montana, the missile silos, and turn them off. I’ve
talked with him in his house about these experiences, as you
have in your Disclosure Project…
KC: We’re totally on the same page on that. There’s
no doubt whatsoever that they came and they are absolutely
adamant that this technology not go... first of all, not happen
on the Earth…
SG: It would destroy the planet.
KC: …but second of all, not go beyond. It’s
actually interdimensional in its destructive ability.
SG: Correct. Yes, I’m very aware of this.
KC: So, I think we’re in agreement on that.
SG: In other words, what kind of hornets nest did we
pick? And therefore, what kind of provisions and things are
going on as a consequence of that? So, I always say…
You know, everyone starts getting into the, oh, This alien
agenda and That alien agenda, and I would say: What
would be more constructive is that the human agenda be fixed.
That we learn to live on this planet and fix…
KC: No disagreement there.
SG: …fix our own home. Create a peaceful
civilization rather than worrying about other motives from
Here’s what I predict. I predict that if we were to
do that, and learn to live together without clubbing each other
over the head and killing each other on this planet – as
below, so above – that we would see a change, perhaps,
in the cosmic order for that reason.
So, rather than engaging in debates and speculation about
the agenda, perhaps harmful aliens and this and that, I would
say why don’t we create a civilization of abundance and
of peace and of enlightenment here? And go into space with
that intent and see what the response to the cosmos will be
It may be the response that we’re getting now is a directly
proportional response, karmically and otherwise, to what we
have been doing to each other.
KC: Absolutely. We are attracting... like a mirror.
SG: You know, in the last 100 years we have killed 160-million of
our own fellow humans. I think that if you reflect on that...
And I was seeing an interview with Robert McNamara towards
the end of his life where he was reflecting on the terrible
mistakes he made in Vietnam and the other wars of the 20th
What I think is that there needs to be a sort of Let’s
look at ourselves and I think that many times…
KC: But let’s not do that to the exclusion. It’s
not an either/or question. In other words, what I hear you
saying is let’s be a little more sort of Earth-centered
in our view of reality and not worry about the agendas of those
other beings out there. And let’s concentrate on building
our nest and making it a good, healthy place, and playing nice
with each other. There’s no disagreement with that.
SG: No, it’s not either/or. I’m saying let’s
do that. That’s why we’re doing the OrionProject.org.
KC: We have absolutely no disagreement with that.
SG: That’s why we’re also doing the contact,
diplomatic effort. And we invite all these… We always
invite all these civilizations to make contact.
KC: But actually you’re assuming that there’s
no intervention going on. And I think this is getting to the
root of the question. In other words, do you know about screen
memories? You must know about them if you’ve been
as deep as you have.
SG: Well, yeah, the psychotronic programs that have
been in existence for many years…
KC: All right, because you obviously have a positive
view of all your interaction. And, you know, not to get personal
on this level, but to say that if I meet a being who thinks
they’ve only had positive interactions with certain ETs
or animals or whoever they are, then I might look at that person
and I might question...
This is my issue – I might question whether or not that
person really knows what they’re having because they
might be screen-memoried and they might actually be having
some negative interaction in there and not know it. Now, obviously
SG: So you’re back to the positive and the negative
and the polarity…
KC: But we live in a 3-D level and we are moving to
SG: And see, this is... The whole point is that…
KC: Actually it goes beyond that, so don’t interrupt
me, because I want to finish here.
SG: I don’t think it’s that simple.
KC: Absolutely, and we agree on that. It is very complex.
KC: We’re multidimensional beings. We live on
lots of different levels. We are spiritual beings first…
KC: …and humans second. Okay? We actually are
just inhabiting these human bodies at the moment, in my view.
SG: Correct. Short-term lease.
KC: I have had a number of Samadhi experiences myself,
so I totally know where you’re coming from with that,
and I appreciate that. But that doesn’t change the fact
that it is extremely complex, this picture of what’s
going on here.
None of us have all the answers, and to make definitive statements
that we feel you are making out there – okay? – and
to actually limit... to put blinders on to such an effect to
say: There is nothing to be worried about, at all, humans
out there. Just worry about your own little playground. And
meanwhile, out there, are...
Because I got to tell you, if you’re aware of psychic
and you have psychic perception, you know there are entities
that do not have bodies that are negatively oriented.
Now “negative,” again, becomes a judgment. And
how do you want to call negative…
SG: Those aren’t extraterrestrial. Now
you’re confusing the whole cosmological…
KC: I’m not confused. On the contrary, I’m
using an example…
SG: I’ve never denied that there were those kind
KC: Okay. Fine.
SG: But those aren’t extraterrestrial, physical… Some
of this may be definitional.
KC: I know that. Let’s extrapolate from there.
I’m simply focusing, right now, on what you might term
a “negative entity” that doesn’t have a body,
and I’m saying…
Or you could even say fire. Now, fire is an entity. It’s
a non-… It doesn’t have a body, and yet it has
a power, it can create itself. So, in a sense you could say
it’s negatively oriented if it burns your house, but
on the other hand it could keep you warm.
So by the same token we could find entities that are in physical
bodies – again, spirits having a physical experience – which
could be an ET, it could be us… it’s so multidimensional.
Don’t you see what I’m saying?
SG: Oh, absolutely.
KC: In other words, if they are spirits as we are spirits,
then they can be moved by the positive polarity as they could
be pulled by the negative polarity.
It could look, from the dimension of being in this 3-D world
that we’re inhabiting called Earth, in this human body,
in this experience, and how they impact us, could in fact be
ultimately negative to our growth cycle. That is, in fact,
something that has been posited as a very real possibility.
SG: Well, anything is possible. I mean, obviously. I
just don’t see the evidence for that. I do see the evidence
for humans killing each other. I do see weapons in space where
we have targeted these visitors…
KC: I appreciate that.
SG: … and all of that. So, I mean, we can talk
in circles all day on this.
KC: Yeah. Sure.
SG: My position is that there has not been an action
against the Earth and humanity from an extraterrestrial, interstellar,
physical civilization to here, that I think would cause us
to want to have a sort of armed conflict response.
Now, are there experiences people have that they interpret
as negative? Absolutely.
I’m going to tell you something, and people don’t
like to hear this, but in a major trauma case, if a child comes
in and there’s no time for anesthesia, and I have to
put a chest tube in the chest wall of that child, I must look
like the most horrible monster and devil that ever lived.
My motive is to save that child. My motive
is to help that child. But to anyone seeing it who
would just walk in from another planet or off the street, they’d
go: What is that monstrous doctor… or What
are they doing?
BR: You’re doing what you must.
SG: And what my motive is, is that I’ve
got five minutes or less to save that child’s life. So,
saying is that this sort of anthropocentric…
KC: It’s a matter of perspective.
SG: … and it is a matter of perspective. I think
that’s why I prefer to be cautious, cautiously optimistic,
put out a positive view on how we should be interacting with
this thing. It is not irresponsible. I am not insidious. I
think that these sort of characterizations are highly offensive,
as I have never attacked you folks publicly.
I found I was attacked on your blog today. It was unfortunate.
But my perspective, I want to be very clear…
KC: No, no. Your philosophy was attacked. You were
SG: Yeah, well, whatever.
KC: Actually, you were complimented.
SG: But I just have to say that that is why we’re
wanting to be cautious because it is so easy for humans… I
mean, look what happened after 9/11. It is so easy for humans
to take shreds of information and then go on a war footing
or go on a conflict footing.
BR: We agree with you.
SG: This is the inherent danger of some of the things
that you’re saying, is it can shove humanity.
KC: Yeah, okay. I understand.
SG: Okay. And there’s one thing to have a private
conversation about speculating about the motives and the agendas
of the aliens, but when you start talking to the people of
the planet about this and you start putting out… and
positing that there are these – and to use your word,
and the polarity negative and this and that – this would throw
the planet into…
And it would also throw the planet completely into the camp
of Majestic, who for years has been trying to... and has also
taken presidents aside, like Reagan, and tried to convince
them of exactly the argument you’re making so that he
would spend hundreds of billions of dollars on SDI. I think
this gets into serious policy issues.
KC: Yeah, yeah.
SG: Okay. And I have responsibilities here that you’re
not aware of. So to say I’m irresponsible... You don’t
know what my responsibilities are. And therefore…
BR: I want to…
SG: No you do not! What I’m saying here is that…
BR: I want to ask a question which is very… I
want to take this back, now. Just wait a second, let’s
cool down and I want to just make an analogy.
Now, an analogy that I sometimes use, and it
usually results in nods of agreement, is that we’re like
fishermen on a South Sea island, in the middle of the Pacific
Ocean, having believed for generations that we’re the
only people in the whole world.
We’re sitting around a campfire cooking our fish and
we’re trying to figure out: That big metal ship on
the horizon, what do they want with us? That metal bird that
keeps on circling around our island, what are they doing? Is
it real? And Did you see it? And all this kind
We’re trying to figure out the intentions, assuming
that we believe in their existence, of these other beings that
we’re suddenly starting to realize might exist in our
universe on this little tropical island.
Now, the problem is that if we really do look at this as a
human situation which is quite real, really, what experience
do we have as South Sea island fishermen to figure out –
Maybe they want to cut our trees down. Maybe they want
to save us because the sea level’s rising and they
want to take us to another island. Maybe they want our minerals,
or maybe they want to convert us to Christianity. Maybe they
want to eat us, kill us, or maybe they want to make friends. How
do we know?
The danger is – and this is a question now – the
danger is that I’m here around this campfire with you
guys and I hear you saying those other men in those big ships
and those metal birds must be friendly.
And I’m saying: Wait a minute. We need to be a little
bit careful here because, actually, even though we do get
into fights on this little island every now and then, how
do we know we can trust them? Maybe we can, maybe we can’t.
What’s your experience?
That’s an attempt to characterize, by analogy, how complex
this is. That’s why I said that it was irresponsible,
as I would do if I was around that campfire, as an elder of
this community saying: They’ve got to be friendly,
we’ve got to trust them, you’ve got to trust them. This
is what the Incas said about the Conquistadors!
SG: Yes, but your metaphor is, again, an anthropocentric
projection onto something that I think is non-applicable.
I think that, in addition to that, our... I keep coming back
to this. Not only in my personal experience, but the experience
of hundreds of people, thousands of people, that we have had
involved with our diplomatic contact programs, have not had
any of this sort of experience that would lend us to believe
that there are civilizations that are hostile to the Earth
and to humanity.
On the other hand, I have had many sources describe to me
the Programmed Life Forms, the military involvement with hoaxing
abductions, a false-flag operation to create an alien threat
that we can unite against.
So I have to go on the knowledge and the experience I have,
and it isn’t just observing something from afar, because
we’ve actually had contact. We actually have more information
than something just floating up above the island. So the analogy
breaks down very quickly.
And even if there was this potential for one or more of these
planetary civilizations to be of concern to us, my answer would
still be the same:
There needs to be engagement. There needs to be a diplomatic
détente. There needs to be a rapprochement. There
needs to be an enlightened approach to this where we really
move out of a sort of duality that leads to conflict on Earth.
I think that regardless of what your assessment of the agenda,
the path of wisdom and safety is that.
KC: Okay, we don’t disagree with that, okay? Let’s
talk about where we agree…
BR: I agree fully, and it needs to be in the public
KC: I mean, we certainly agree on the end objective.
Okay? The end objective, from our point of view. Okay? We are
not part of the military-industrial complex. Okay?
We’re doing what we do because we believe in truth,
because we’re dedicating our lives. And, indeed, our
lives literally have been in danger because of what we believe.
We do it on a daily basis and you, of all people, should understand
KC: So we’re not taking this lightly. Our end
result is not to be what they may desire as their ultimate
end-game. In other words, we’re not here to support their
end-game and we’re not naïve about what we’re
doing either. So neither of those things is true. Okay?
We are not trying to promote sort of a fear-based paradigm
such that people get into a place where the only thing they
can think of is to shoot ET in the head, to be graphic, or
to allow for space-based weaponry.
I mean, we basically agree with your philosophy in that way,
wholeheartedly. In fact, I would say, we are dedicating our
lives to that.
However, on the other hand, we are also not going to sit here
and pretend that we know all the answers. And we’re also
not gonna assume that all contact is positive. On the contrary
to what your…
SG: You’re going to say whatever you think.
KC: Yeah, obviously we are. But in terms of this discussion
and for the reason that we… You know, you’re sort
of saying our blog thing, our posting, you found offensive
because we’re saying... What you’re saying on stage, and
again, you’re on stage. You’re on stage actually
more often than we are, far more often – and I have to
say, therefore your responsibility is great.
Perhaps your approach is a bit simplistic in that you are
assuming that if you talk about the potential that there are
other things going on, or a potential for other ways of looking
at the question, that the jump that the whole audience out
there is gonna make immediately is to fear and panic. And that
they’re gonna jump on this bandwagon of the military-industrial
complex, and all go out and grab their guns and knives and
want to go shoot ET and fight with each other and other worlds,
and so on. That’s not... In other words, you’re
SG: But the problem is, is that I’m completely
aware that my position is the minority position. Okay? I’m
acutely aware that.
KC: Actually, that’s not true either. I mean,
there are plenty of people out there that are advocating peace
and love, and getting on their cars and jumping up and down: Please,
ET, come save us because you’re all good.
SG: No. I would actually challenge you to look at Hollywood,
the UFO community, the books and videos that are out on this
subject. They are overwhelmingly negative and terrifying. I think
that this is one of the problems.
BR: I don’t think so.
SG: I think that one of the problems is that we have
to look at this with a long view. And the long view, as I see
it... And this is all I can do is go by my own moral compass
and what I think is right. I don’t think I’m irresponsible.
I don’t think I’m simplistic, and all these sort
I think that I have a responsibility to help articulate a
path forward that is wise and that does not redound to further
fear and panic and negativity on this planet, but that moves
us forward in a positive way and that can lead to what I’m
certain will be the future for this planet.
That’s one of, not only world peace, but universal peace
and a wholly, completely new, transformative civilization on
this planet that isn’t thousands of years off or even
decades off now. I think it’s very, very near.
So, I think that that’s what I wish to articulate. There’s
no simplicity to it. It’s actually a rather complex concept.
It’s also a way of engaging spiritually.
I want to share a dream I had. I don’t share this very
often, but... Back when my friend Shari and I and another member
of my team all got metastatic cancer in the same month and
we were all going to die. She died, but she was still alive.
And Bill Colby had died, been killed trying to help us just
before this. It was a terrible time, actually, for me.
I had a dream. And, of course, I’m human. I was angry.
I was mad as hell at what was happening to us.
I had a dream – I think I was in England doing some
crop circle work – and in the dream there were these
giant lions that were stalking me. They were going to try to
kill me. (It’s funny because Dr. Tom Bearden talks about “the
lions” of this cabal, and I’d never heard him use
that term at the time I had the dream.)
But here were these huge lions, and they were stalking me
and they were going to kill me. And it was this lucid, lucid,
I didn’t run. I didn’t get angry. I didn’t
have hate in my heart. I opened my heart and went to a place
of universal love and consciousness and I engaged each lion
in their eyes.
We were doing this, following each other around, and eventually
they became so engaged with that energy that, even though they
had huge claws and fangs, they actually flipped over on their
back and I was petting them like this, like they were big pussycats.
We had become… It completely diffused that situation.
I use that as an analogy of sort of an aikido, spiritually,
of the engagement I’m endeavoring in, both with the public,
with Majestic, with the visitors. That’s what I’m
KC: I understand.
SG: That’s it in summary.
KC: I think that’s a great description of your
approach and what’s motivating you. Thank you very much
for that, Steven Greer.
BR: Thank you for sharing that, Steven.
SG: Thank you.
BR: Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
SG: Thank you.
here for the