Dr. Paul LaViolette:
Earth under Fire : Galactic Superwaves
Lagonissi, Greece, 29 July, 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.]
LaVIOLETTE (PLV): This is the problem with Black Projects. They’re
completely isolated from the rest of the world, discovering things as
if they found them themselves for the first time, while everyone else
who may have been doing a lot of work on the subject is left out of
the loop; that really people should be brought in from outside to
help on this.
keep it secret? We all want to help out to prepare for the next
my standpoint is, from all the work I’ve done, I can only talk
about probabilities, that we’re overdue for one, but I don’t
know when it’s going to come. I can say that within the next
400 years, there’s over 90 percent chance we’re going to
have one. Whether it’s a small one or a large one, I don’t
know. So that’s the best I can do.
I would be saying something entirely different if I had real evidence
that there was one, that somebody had actually detected one.
this would have also what we call an EMP – ElectroMagnetic
Pulse – associated with it, similar to what a high-altitude
nuclear explosion would do in the atmosphere.
CASSIDY (KC): So, are you that rare thing, “A Scientist with a
I guess you’d say so, yeah. It’s just me, I guess. My
interest is in helping humanity. I’m interested in the truth
and not living in some dream of some belief system that other people
are telling you and it doesn’t fit the data.
Start of Interview:
RYAN (BR): This is Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot
and this is Wednesday, the 29th of July, 2009, and we are in
which is just south of Athens in Greece. It’s our great
pleasure to be here because we are here with Dr. Paul LaViolette, who
is best described, I believe, as a maverick astrophysicist who has
some very important theories that may possibly be of some impact, if
I dare use that word, to people on this planet at this time.
here to ask Paul to explain the “Hypothesis of the Galactic
Superwave” and that’s the smallest nutshell I can put
So Paul, why don’t you introduce yourself and say something
about your background?
Well, I grew up in a family of scientists in Schenectady, New York.
Both my parents had worked on the “Manhattan Project.”
My father was a nuclear engineer working on nuclear submarines at the
time, so I was exposed at an early age to nuclear reactors and
was sort of a science buff from very early, with hobbies in
chemistry, electronics, pyrotechnics. [laughs] I was the fellow on
the street who was launching rockets from his back yard –
almost had a pretty bad accident. It was sort of just a stroke of
luck that I didn’t get hurt badly.
moved to Greece for a couple years and that was quite an experience
when I was in high school. I went to Johns Hopkins for my BA in
Physics. I then did an MBA.
was a conscientious objector, so in the middle of my business degree,
I took off two years to do alternative service; I was working at
Harvard doing research on public health, on respiratory protection of
after finishing at the University of Chicago – my MBA – I
did my Ph.D. in System Science at Portland State University. That
took quite a few years to go through that.
I founded The Starburst
graduating and that’s still going. It’s a research
What is it researching?
Well, I founded it with the purpose of investigating further the
and in the event
that signs of a superwave were about to be arriving, that we would go
into high gear alerting, like when you have the first warning signs
of an earthquake, that you start alerting everyone.
were dealing here with a phenomenon that few people knew about, so I
felt obligated to try and do my best to inform people about this new
So did you train and hire people that were able to handle and
understand the science behind the superwave?
At one time we had some volunteers
help out, for
example, when we were getting ice core samples from Holland, to help
prepare the chest to bring the ice, but we never really had serious
funding to be able to hire people.
Most of the charitable institutions were interested in funding the
arts and they figured science is left to the National Science
in NASA, but they
[NSF & NASA] tend to fund very conventional-type research that
fits exactly with the paradigm.
So what you’re saying basically is that you created this
Institute did you call it? Or would you call it a Think Tank or...?
I would call it a Research Institute.
Institute. Okay. And in theory it’s there in case you find
that the superwave really is on the way. But in a sense haven’t
you found that that is true already?
Well, yeah. There is a superwave on the way from the center of the
galaxy – it’s 23,000 light-years traveled distance. I
believe there’s not one but several on their way towards us.
were other purposes for the Foundation also; it was to do further
work on a physics that I developed called Subquantum Kinetics which
has new implications both for technology and for cosmology. In fact
it completely revises the way we regard the world, the Universe.
I’ve done some work in the psychology area of thought formation
and so that was a third possible area we could investigate. But also
alternative energy was a fourth topic. So, all of these.
Okay, so you’re saying that there is a galactic superwave on
the way and you think there’s more than one.
Okay, and the reason you think there’s more than one is...?
Well, you look at the past to understand the future. In this case
you’re dealing with a cyclic phenomenon. We have the ice core
record from both Antarctica and Greenland and people have measured
which is an indicator
of cosmic ray intensity on the surface of the Earth. So it sort of
gives you a chart of how cosmic ray intensity has varied over the
last few hundred-thousand years, and going back you see these peaks.
had predicted you would find peaks when I did my Ph.D. dissertation
on this topic at Portland State University and later the data came
out, and indeed, there were peaks. You
can take this and
analyze it to look
at for the
periods. You find that there are certain periods that come out of
this data. One of them is around 26,000 to 28,000 years, which is
approximating the precessional cycle of the Earth. In fact, the two
tend to match up in a certain way which is very interesting.
is around 11,500 years. And the third one is around 5,700 years,
which is close to the Mayan calendar cycle. And you see that there
was a major event at the end of the Ice Age between 11,000 and 16,000
years ago, and that we’re in fact overdue now for another one.
were smaller events. You see a small event around 5,300 years ago; it
lasted maybe 20 years or so. There’s also very small events –
averaging every 500 years or so – since then. There were 14
small puffs of gas that were emitted from the galactic center, which
it was active, but it
wasn’t active enough to create a peak that you could see in the
So you determined this by looking at the ice cores and the amount of
debris in them? Am I wrong?
Well, they were analyzing
beryllium-10, which is
a radioactive element. It’s produced in the atmosphere by
cosmic rays. It doesn’t originate on Earth because, being
radioactive, it eventually dissipates, decays away. It has a
half-life longer than carbon-14, so they can go back further than
with carbon-14, with this.
Okay. So when you say there’s a small
event, what is a small
event comprised of? How does that affect the Earth?
The small event that happened 5,300 years ago, it was just a little
spike and it was easily missed. It was only seen because this
particular researcher did a very detailed study of the [ice] core and
they found it – without remarking what it was. I was the one
that called attention to it.
the same time, another researcher found that the climate cooled
inexplicably at that time and became dry. In fact, in the Andes they
glaciologist who I worked with at the time I was doing my Ph.D.
research, he was the one who sent me samples from the Camp
Century ice core that
I had analyzed.
team found actual vegetation frozen in the ice, sort of like
flash-frozen, it still had a green color, you know, as if there were
some hail storm at that time. It’s the same year they found the
Ice Man; the Ice Man in the Alps dates to about the same time. So it
seems like there were sudden blizzards that occurred about that time.
So are you extrapolating that this superwave could cause an Ice Age?
In this case it didn’t. The small event didn’t cause an
Ice Age, but it did cause cooling. But in a larger event... We see
these events occurring at the time of the initiation of the last Ice
Age. You see them lining up not only with the beginning of the Ice
Age but also at the ending, and with major climatic transitions in
between. So there’s a definite connection between climate and
I want to ask some questions here on behalf of a lot of intelligent
listeners we have who are alert to your name and to the fact that you
have been saying some things that are considered by many intelligent
people to be important, but they still don’t know what a
superwave is. I wondered if you can back right up and tell our
viewers: What is a
And do they exist, or is it just a hypothesized event? And why should
A superwave consists of cosmic ray electrons, gamma-rays, x-rays,
light, radiowaves – across the whole spectrum – along
with a gravity wave, and this is all traveling at the speed of light
towards our solar system. In fact, it propagates throughout the whole
galaxy, sort of like a spherical shell traveling out from the center
of the galaxy.
So, in simplistic terms, it’s an enormous cosmic-scale,
galactic explosion coming from the center of the galaxy.
Right. We’ve all heard of gamma-ray
In fact, some scientists have theorized that the gamma-rays are
accompanied by charged particles coming along with them, that it’s
actually the charged particles that generate the gamma-rays on the
way. This is what a superwave is, except on a much larger scale.
Instead of a burst, just of a fraction of a second, we’re
dealing with something that could continue for hundreds, even
thousands, of years.
When you say it could continue for hundreds
or thousands of
years, are you talking about it could travel for hundreds
or thousands of
years and take that long to get here? Or are you talking about its
actual impact on Earth lasting for hundreds or thousands of years?
The actual period that the Earth would be going through this storm –
you can think of it as a galactic storm – could be anywhere
from a few hundred years to thousands of years, like 4,000 years,
maybe 5,000 years.
So are you seeing traces that in the past – because you said
every 26,000 years that there is evidence of this, and it matches
with the precession of the Equinox. Are you saying that during that
time there’s evidence that it stayed around, its impact lasted
for up to 4,000 years? Or at those times did it last for shorter
If you look at the record – in my book I showed the
beryllium-10 record –-
you see, for example, around 40,000 years ago there was quite a hefty
peak there, lasting 5,000 years, the whole thing.
is actually one event that there’s been a lot of study on by
other glaciologists. They all agree that the cosmic ray intensity
went up in a real fashion at that time, although they propose an
alternative theory of supernova explosion, without saying where is
the supernova. They suggested a star nearby exploded.
answer to that is this happens very rarely, to have a star explode
that close to cause the cosmic ray intensity to significantly
increase on Earth. And we’re talking about many peaks, you
know. They just wanted to explain the one, but what about... In the
record that we have, there’s something like twelve to fifteen
And these are cyclical so, in essence, stars don’t explode on
a cyclical basis, as far as we know.
That’s the other thing. Yeah.
I want to ask you, Paul, is there a recognized hypothesized
mechanism whereby whatever it is at the center of the galaxy –
there are those
think it’s a
black hole – would actually emit these superwaves on a cyclical
basis? Is there some theoretical background for the existence of that
I haven’t heard them put forward something
to explain the
cyclic nature. I think that they find it sort of mysterious.
conventional view... because they see this going on in other
galaxies. They’re called exploding
quasars. These are
various names for the same sort of thing.
one time they thought a quasar was an
object in space, when
in fact, it turns out it’s a galaxy whose center has become so
bright that it looks star-like and they don’t see the galaxy
itself. But with the space telescope, they found the spiral arms
would think that these exploding galaxies have a cycle on the order
of several hundred-million years and that the period of the explosion
would last about a few million years, with the idea that if it
happened in our own galaxy -- because they also would say, Well,
it’s possible it would happen in our galaxy, too;
but they say, Well, we’re
in a quiescent period now, which should hold for at least another
50-million years, so we shouldn’t be worrying about it.
even if it did
conventional view is that these cosmic rays would be held back by the
magnetic fields that these would come to our rescue to hold back the
cosmic rays from leaving the center of the galaxy.
So to get back to your theory, though, of what you call the
superwave, you see evidence that we are in the midst of a superwave
now? Or several of them, you’re saying?
No, they haven’t arrived. We’re in the eye of the
hurricane, the nice sunny period
in between before
the storm arrives. The thing is that you can’t see them coming
because they travel at the speed of light, so it’s a phenomenon
that’s totally without warning, just like a gamma-ray burst.
They only know it when their detectors pick it up, and then they’re
able to locate where it came from.
Well, if it’s coming to our solar system, wouldn’t other
planets be affected before we would?
Yes. It affects all planets, all stars.
So, in a sense, you could see it coming if you saw the effects on
other planets before it hit Earth. Is that right?
Well, the light from those effects on the other planets also travels
at the speed of light, so it actually lags behind the actual event
Yeah. I understand very well that this is something that you can’t
see happening because of the nature of the limited speed of light,
and this is something that travels
the speed of light. So basically, this comes up and hits you from
behind, as it were, and you’ve got no warning.
Yeah. There would be only one way I could see that you could have
warning. If, let’s say, a hypothesis, that there were
civilizations in the galaxy, there was intelligent life and they
recognized the importance of knowing when these were coming and set
up outposts at different points that were able to relay a signal that
was superluminal – in other words,
that would travel
faster than the speed of light – to get the warning here, so
we’d know exactly when the next one was going to arrive. That’s
Okay, well we actually have a witness, we call him Jake Simpson, who
has said that they did
send a superluminal craft outside this solar system and that they
seen a wave approaching. He called it a
wave. We’re not
sure if he actually meant
a wave, but in essence they saw something
headed toward us.
Who is they?
The people that he works for in Black Projects, basically. This is
Jake Simpson. So that was one of the reasons that we were sort of
interested in hearing your theory because in many ways it
seems to coincide
with what he was saying,
with what they
And how close is it? Did he say?
In this period of years, between now and 2017.
Yes, it was very interesting. It was a conversation which I
personally had with him last October when we met. He’s not a
physicist, but he’s an intelligent man. He’s worked for
Black Projects on the inside and he’s saying things to us that
are at the limit of what he can say.
he said was that there is a
wave coming. He stressed
that the wave was a sort of loose term; it was a metaphor. He said to
think of it in terms of a
wave. He said it like
that. And I have no idea whether he’s acquainted with your
Well, this is the problem with Black Projects. They’re
completely isolated from the rest of the world and discovering things
as if they found them themselves for the first time while everyone
else who may have been doing a lot of work on the subject is left out
of the loop.
only people that lose out are the human race, basically.
been here; I’ve been working on superwaves since 1979; so about
30 years, and I would be happy to work with them. I believe I’d
have something to contribute if they did
indeed have some
information like that.
So actually is it possible that they are following your work?
Benefiting from it?
Oh, I’m sure they’ve bought my book and it’s
circulated among the Black Project scientists.
Especially if your parents, as you said, worked in the Manhattan
Well, regardless of that, I think they’re searching for new
ideas all the time to sort of funnel this into what they’re
doing. I think to some extent they realize that they don’t have
all the ideas, that there’s interesting stuff out there.
I think it’s that, really, people should be brought in from
outside to help on this. Why keep it secret? We all want to help out,
to prepare for the next event.
my standpoint is, from all the work I’ve done, I can only talk
about probabilities, that we’re overdue for one, but I don’t
know when it’s going to come. Because I’m looking at the
past record, I see the cycles.
see when the last events occurred, and I can say that within the next
400 years, there’s over 90 percent chance we’re going to
have one. Whether it’s a small one or a large one, I don’t
know. So that’s the best I can do.
I would be saying something entirely different if I had real evidence
that there was one, that somebody had actually detected one. The
Starburst Foundation, for example, would go into high gear to say,
you know: We’ve got
to start preparing.
not prepared for something like this. Not even for a Carrington
solar flare which
could wipe out all the power systems, if we had one.
So are you saying that the superwave would result in the wiping out
of the power systems?
What other effects would it have?
The thing is, the superwave, on its forefront, would have a very
dense sort of shock-front of cosmic rays and this would have also
what we call an EMP –
Pulse – associated with it, similar to what a high-altitude
nuclear explosion would do in the atmosphere.
this arrives, it’s going to create similar phenomena, just like
Explosion – I
believe it was near Hawaii – and when the EMP wave arrived,
there were whole
sections of the island that were having blackouts as a result. It
also would fry electronic circuits; phones would go out.
had even smaller events, like
affect the communication systems and do damage to our communication
systems. So something like this would pretty much roast all the
satellite equipment we’ve got. Cell telephones wouldn’t
be working. TV would be off the air if
it depended on
telephones would continue to work if it was fiber-optic, if it was
insulated from this sort of thing. Your power lines would pick up the
pulse. The wires would have a huge voltage surge which would fry the
transformers – the step-down transformers that go from your
million-volt voltages down to
the voltages you
use in your house.
Wouldn’t it also affect the cars that we have now?
The cars that are all now with chips in them. In the case of an EMP
from a nuclear explosion, for example, they warn that it could fry
the chips in a car.
And this is something that could last for a hundred years, you’re
saying, once it arrived.
The forefront – we’re talking about something that might
just be minutes, and it would be probably preceded by a gravity wave
which would cause earthquakes; seismic events all over the Earth, not
just in one place. So that might be the first warning, actually,
Let me back up just a fraction again to help our viewers understand
this, mostly to help me understand this. Does a superwave incorporate
a gamma-ray burst, or are these two different phenomena that you're
Different. The gamma-ray bursts
that they talk
about are usually from isolated stellar explosions, perhaps very
powerful supernova explosions. They have some special physics
involved there, that the stars are very unusual, like neutron stars
colliding and so on.
The thing is that whatever they are, we can only guess because
they’re so far away. Most of the gamma-ray bursts that we’re
picking up come from other galaxies, millions of light-years away.
been only one case we’ve observed, one that came from within
our galaxy. It was a place near the galactic center, but not at the
core. What’s unusual there is that about two days before the
gamma-ray burst arrived was the worst seismic event that we’ve
had in 30 years that caused the 2004
Day Tsunami in
Malaysia and over 250,000 people died in that event.
So you’re saying that was caused by a gamma-ray explosion?
This was the first one
they found that
was emitted from within our galaxy. It was the most intense that
they’d ever observed in the history of gamma-ray observatory
coincidence of being just shortly after the worst earthquake we’ve
had in 40 years... You can do the probabilities and you come up with
very small probability
due to chance.
So you’re saying this gamma-ray
versus a superwave; if
you were to compare them as events, would you say that the superwave
is... it sounds like it’s much more long-range, it would impact
for years at a time.
And it’s cyclical as opposed to the gamma-ray bursts that
maybe aren’t explainable?
The gamma-ray burst, probably the source star ends up blowing itself
up completely into smithereens, so there’s no cycle involved.
core explosions, we’re dealing with the massive object at the
center of the galaxy – scientists call it a black hole. I don’t
believe in black holes and I know other astrophysicists that don’t
believe in black holes, but I do believe it’s a very massive
object. I believe it’s the core of a star.
natural evolution, a star will eject its atmosphere and you’re
left with a very dense core. It has a density similar to a white
dwarf star which is, like they say, one-ton-per-cubic-centimeter; or
in an extreme case, go to the density of a neutron star, which is a
million times greater.
mean, we’re talking about a spiral galaxy whose core object has
evolved to the point where it’s starting this outburst cycle.
And, by the way, that’s how a galaxy is formed. These outbursts
actually participate in the formation of the galaxy. That’s
what causes the spiral phenomenon, because without these outbursts,
the spiral arms would wind up on themselves. This is a problem which
astrophysicists have wondered about: Why
don’t the spiral arms wind up as it turns?
Well it’s because you have these periodic outbursts coming out
and they sort of propel everything.
But do you know what causes that?
The periodic outbursts?
Yeah. I have theory that comes out of Subquantum Kinetics. In
Subquantum Kinetics, you have a continuous creation of matter and
energy, basically a violation of the First Law of Thermodynamics,
which is no big deal, you know... maybe physicists would consider it
a big deal.
the point is that we’re talking about a level that’s 10
orders of magnitude smaller than what they can observe in a
laboratory. In fact, I have suggested an experiment where they can
observe it in space with microwave signals between spacecraft.
published the amount of the energy increase of a photon over that
period of distance. In fact, they ended up finding this, and it’s
today called The Pioneer
Okay. So this Subquantum Kinetic – what do you call –
particles? It’s a theory...
is the name I gave to the physics. It’s resulting from taking
concepts in system theory, the area I was studying for my Ph.D. work.
you bring systems concepts into physics and bring, for example,
models that have been developed in the area of chemistry, of how
chemical waves form, I realized that these, for example, form a very
good model for describing how a particle forms in space, and you find
that it solves a lot of problems which physics had before.
traditionally has been based on mechanics and we’re talking
about a chemical reaction approach to physics. Actually you could say
and it ties in with ancient ideas, too.
Does this relate to hyper-dimensional physics and particles being
waves depending on how you look at them?
Okay, it does postulate the existence of higher dimensions. The
basic idea, which is what steered me into all of this work that I’ve
been doing, was the realization that the basis of Existence is flux.
This is totally different from what physicists have been teaching.
teach that the basis of existence is structure
– there are particles that are somehow bound to each other,
even quarks. They speak of quarks in gluons,
the “glue” that holds them together, so to speak.
they begin talking about flux...
Because from their
point of view… physics is a positivist science. They want to
observe, to actually say: Well,
there it is. I observe it.
is this flux? Well, they can’t see it. You can’t see this
flux because it’s at an etheric
level. You postulate an ether as a substrate forming
A gamma-ray burst basically
is a local event
that comes from a supernova, which is
hugely destructive and powerful
and we’re quite fortunate to not have any near us. We basically
have seen them, if
I understand it right, in neighboring galaxies.
the superwave is something different, which is cyclical, is
accompanied by a gravity wave, is accompanied by cosmic ray debris
and lasts quite a long time, like a storm, and leaves its imprints
and its echoes materially in ice core samples, which is the tangible
evidence that you have that there’s something going on here
that’s not being recognized.
you speak to all of that and lay this out simply for people so that
they can sort of see the territory
talking about here?
Okay. We also have supernova explosions in our own galaxy, but
they’re not of the kind of the very powerful ones that cause
when we’re seeing these gamma-ray bursts, what it is, is just a
clump of very energetic particles that happened to come our way at
that moment. When scientists are saying it
was very, very powerful,
they’re saying: Imagine
that this was the same energy from whatever angle you viewed this
star and it would end up
totaling to a huge, astronomical amount of energy.
if it was just a clump, a collimated
burst that happened to
come, then you’re down to more reasonable levels. The thing is
we don’t really know; these things are so far away. But we do
know that supernova explosions that have happened within our galaxy
don’t really affect us that much, unless it happens to be one
very close, like within 30 light-years, which is a very rare event.
the core explosions are different in that, instead of just a fraction
of a second for the event, you’re talking about anything from
several years for a very minor event to 4,000 to 5,000 years’
longer events can actually start affecting climate, because what they
do is they vaporize cometary ice which is surrounding our solar
system end up pushing this nebular material into the solar system,
and it affects the way light gets to the Earth from the sun. It ends
up energizing the sun. It falls onto the sun; the sun becomes more
active and more of a flaring star.
the sun ends up, then, doing more damage to Earth than the superwave
itself. The superwave is sort of what gets this dust in and then you
get worse things happening.
So is it possible that Solar Cycle 24 could be acting on the Earth
as a result of a superwave that’s going to hit the sun?
No, because we’ve in the in-between period, in between
superwaves. The solar system is fairly clean of dust.
mean, if the solar system was packed with dust like the level I’m
talking about, we would all see it. You would see the moon being
blotted out by a dust cloud or a huge dust cloud going across the
It would be definitely coast to coast news; both sides of the
These dust clouds, aren’t they also traveling at the speed of
light from the galactic core?
No, no, the dust doesn’t come from the core of the galaxy.
It’s already around our solar system and it’s pretty much
stationary, relatively stationary, just orbiting the sun, normally.
when the superwave arrives, it creates a sort of a shock-front around
the solar system because the solar system has magnetic fields around
it, and it creates what they call bow-shock
the heliopause. Heliopause
is the name of the sort of protective sheath of magnetic fields
around the solar system.
the magnetic fields, the superwave particles tend to get trapped to
some extent and build up to very high levels,
enough of a
density of cosmic ray energy to actually start vaporizing ice.
that happens it’s actually able to raise the temperature from
close to, let’s say, ten degrees above absolute zero, up to the
level where the ice could vaporize and release both dust and water
vapor – gas – into space and this stuff gets pushed in as
it’s being pushed in by the superwave cosmic rays.
like a battle between the solar wind and the superwave cosmic rays.
The solar wind is sort of expelling this dust, but then the superwave
is pushing this in and it will actually compress the magnetic field
sheath that’s around the solar system inward.
my thesis which I published in 1983,
Galactic Core Explosions and Their Effect on the Earth and Solar
I was suggesting that
at the end of the Ice Age, the sheath actually got pushed in almost
to Mars’ orbit. So from there, it’s just a short hop for
this dust then to come in around the sun.
would actually produce a cocoon around the sun, so that the sun
wouldn’t be yellow like we see it; it would be reddish.
So let me feed back to you what I think that you’re saying.
What you’re saying is that the
a huge energetic impact on the dynamic systems in the solar system
and then that causes so many energetic complications – and I’m
speaking very generally here deliberately – and that’s
actually what creates the major changes in the weather that could
last several thousand years.
the reverberations, electromagnetically, and the dust clouds,
and the behavior
of the sun and everything else are going to cause quite a long ripple
effect locally after the superwave itself is actually all over. Have
I got that approximately correct?
Yeah. Think of this in systems concepts. Think of a system, and they
speak of perturbing the
system with an outside
influence of force or something.
The solar system, and in fact the Earth’s climatic system, is
here being perturbed by conditions that normally don’t exist
today. The whole energetics around the Earth changes.
it’s in place for decades and decades, that’s long enough
for the Earth’s climatic system to get perturbed into, let’s
say, an Ice Age or to come out of an Ice Age. If it was very brief,
it wouldn’t be long enough to cause this huge climatic shift
that we’ve seen.
But you are saying that you’ve observed that this is cyclical
and you’ve observed that this happens every 26,000 years, and
from what I understand, in your book you’re pulling in
astrology, the Tarot, the Mayan calendar, and all these sort of
prophecies that, you know, how the Hopi say there are different ages
that we go through. In a sense you must be predicting one coming
According to the cycle.
Yeah. Well, I found cycles of 26,000, 11,500 and 5,700 years. This
was a study done by some people in the State of Washington who did
some number crunching as a sort of contribution to Starburst –
we do have people that help out at times. With that we could see that
we’re overdue presently.
before they had done this to get more of a scientific, accurate
estimation of the cycles, you could see my own work. I did just by
eyeballing it and could see that there was this, both 13,000- and
26,000-year period there. But I was a little off, perhaps. The short
one is more close to 11,500 and then there’s a 5,700-year
So if it arrives faster than the speed of light, then...
Not faster. I’m suggesting at
the speed of light although the gravity wave would have been slightly
superluminal at the very beginning if it was due to an explosive
outburst that would have caused it to get a slight head start. But
pretty much the whole thing travels at the speed of light towards us.
So then it could happen at any time. I mean, am I right?
Yeah, we’re in the danger period. You have to realize –
which a lot of scientists don’t because their theories still
believe that galactic core explosions are every hundred-million years
– you have to realize that we are on the fringe of a volcano, a
galactic volcano, and it’s an active volcano, and we should be
expecting the eruption very shortly.
When you say very
shortly, because I
understand you’re looking very long range – what’s
Is that in a year? Two years? Four years? A hundred years?
I don’t know. I only go out on the limb and I say there’s
a 90 percent chance in the next 400 years of this happening.
I think I’m pretty safe that something will happen, even if
it’s a small outburst.
astronomy has been around only for a few hundred years now, we
haven’t seen any bright luminosities coming from the galactic
What about the fact that we’re coming equal with the galactic
center? Does that affect any of this or make it more likely, or will
the way it hits us change?
No. What you’re talking about, the Mayan calendar and the sun
crossing the galactic plane, there’s no effect there. It’s
more you have to look at the period and when the last event happened.
interesting that the 5,300-year event, the small event of 20-year
duration or so, occurred just before the beginning of the Mayan
calendar cycle, the one that we’re currently in. That cycle
began 5,126 years before 2000, or before 2012, so around 3100 BC.
we’re seeing this event was around 3300 BC, plus or minus a few
hundred years, because we don’t know accurately from the
dating. We’re relying on ice core dating and it could be a
little off. Maybe it’s off by a hundred years or so.
What I want to achieve here is some way of assisting many people who
watch our videos to understand the scientific basis for which it’s
plausible that something might be coming this way, and it’s in
our interest to understand and possibly even to prepare for, that
people are picking up intuitively. They’re reading things on
the Internet, things get distorted and muddied around and they don’t
know what they’re reading.
hear these terms like superwave
burst and they don’t
know what they mean and they don’t know whether this is this
mumbo-jumbo, or whether it’s really something that could affect
their lives and change their lives and they don’t know what
basis there is for taking these things seriously and digging more
reason why we’re here talking to you is because you’re
the man who represents and is the spokesperson for these important
ideas. And I say they’re important ideas because any hypothesis
in physics is an important idea. Even if it’s disproved, it was
an important idea until it was disproved and this takes the whole
thing forward, as you’ll understand.
the opportunity here is for you to explain to the viewers as best as
you can how it is that these phenomena should be taken seriously in
your recommendation, what impact they might have on us. What are the
this catastrophism that we should be ignoring, and say: You
know what, everything’s going to be fine because it’s
always been fine?
maybe the geological record shows that things have not always been
fine and you should be on the alert because we’re living on an
unstable planet in a very dynamic system that's affected by
all kinds of things
which we’re only just on the verge of starting to understand.
Well, what you’re saying is the same question that went
through my mind: Is this a real phenomenon? That’s what caused
me to change the topic of my dissertation, my Ph.D. work, to
investigate the superwave phenomenon.
1979 is when I first discovered that this might occur. I formed a
hypothesis. I called it the Galactic Explosion Hypothesis and
convinced my dissertation committee that I could do this,
I could test this
hypothesis, and that I could produce a Ph.D. on this, which I
couldn’t have done at a lot of universities.
happened that I was in a program that was very interdisciplinary, so
the idea of bringing in evidence from various areas – from
geology, astronomy, paleontology, high energy physics – was
fitting with this program.
the end I summarized the evidence and found that it all seemed to
support this concept that a superwave
had indeed passed
through our solar system between eleven and sixteen thousand years
ago causing major effects to the climate.
had a very significant mass extinction, called the Pleistocene
Extinction, where large mammals died along with species of birds and
a number of other animals. Some people have said
it was the worst
extinction to have occurred since the extinction of the dinosaurs.
was also drawing from ancient legends, although I didn’t
include that in the dissertation, but I do believe that that’s
a valuable source of information.
Well, the Flood myths, for example.
Flood myths, the story of the sun burning the Earth, Horus being
stung by the Scorpion – the Scorpion is the sign in the
direction of the galactic center – things like this.
This is where the tail of the Scorpion in the astrological symbol
actually points toward the galactic center.
As if the ancients
were trying to
tell us something.
There are two
arrows in the astrological symbols. Now, remember that the signs,
what we call the astrological signs, are actual constellations out
there, and this is how they were originally formed, as star
are two arrows in the Zodiac. One is the Sagittarius arrow and the
other is the tail of the Scorpion, and they are both pointing, it
seems, at something.
This was my first connection I made between astrology and the
Galactic Core Explosion phenomenon when I realized that the center of
the galaxy was in that region where they were pointing.
So what you’re positing there was the ancient astrologers, who
were also astronomers, were actually trying to leave a message for us
in such a way that it wouldn’t get lost over time.
Right. I believe that the Zodiac was a cryptogram, a time capsule
message that was created to warn the future civilization on our
planet about this.
So that's where your intellectual journey started but presumably you
couldn’t say this in your Ph.D. thesis.
Right. I didn’t include any of that. I mean, who cares,
really, where you got your idea? The point is you make an hypothesis
and you’re testing it – is there scientific evidence for
it? – this is the main thing from the scientific standpoint
that you’re concerned with.
So, what you say is that there is no pole shift, that you don’t
see evidence of actual – and maybe you can explain this to me –
but my understanding is you say that there weren’t pole shifts
at those 26,000-year periods, but there was, instead, this galactic
superwave, explosion. Or even 13,000 or 12,000-year cycles.
Right. I believe that the climatic shifts that people have –
other, I don’t know if you want to call them scientists –
that other theoreticians have suggested that a pole shift was
involved in creating a climatic change.
of all, there are so many shifts of climate just even during the
Dryas, which was
between 11,600 and 13,000 years ago. You see something like 40 major
shifts of climate within that cold period, and to say that was to due
to a shifting back and forth of the pole gets to be a little absurd.
Okay. What’s your response to the serious work of Charles
Hapgood and Rand
and Colin Wilson who’s
been popularizing the idea?
mean, we tend to call it pole shifts, but they’re talking about
crustal displacement. I understand that you don’t feel that the
crustal displacement theory is valid, and
I would be very
interested to hear why that is, in your view.
You know, if the evidence supported it, I would be for it, but you
just go to the ice core evidence to test that theory. For example,
Mr. Flem-Ath was talking about Antarctica being sort of up closer to
where Chile is during the Ice Age and that it suddenly shifted down
to its present position at the end of the Ice Age.
if that was true, then you would expect the climate in Antarctica
should have been warmer during the Ice Age and you don’t see
that. I sent him something like four
from Antarctica which showed it was colder during the Ice Age, from
different parts of Antarctica. It didn’t seem to sway him, I
for me, looking at that data, that rules out a shifting of the poles.
So any kind of crustal...
Plus it would have caused sloshing of the oceans, you would expect,
were such a thing.
Then how come we don’t find saltwater deposits inland? We do
find flood deposits but it’s due to fresh water, which I’ve
suggested is due to melting of the ice sheets – a catastrophic
Could catastrophic melting of the ice sheets explain The Great
There was that much water?
Yes. It’s something that doesn’t happen today because we
don’t have ice sheets. We do have ice caps.
in Iceland, we have situations where the glacier there is melted in a
certain area by a volcano and creates sort of a reservoir of water
which eventually bursts through a dam and pours down. They call this
a glacier burst. These are very small-scale compared to what was
happening during the Ice Age.
So in order for there to have been a Great Flood like the one
described in the myths, the ice sheet would have had to have been
much larger and sea level lower than it is at the moment and there
would have to be a catastrophic melting. Your theory is that that
could only have been produced by some huge cosmic-scale event, which
you’re calling a superwave. Is that right?
It was mainly the sun involved. The superwave triggered the
conditions for the sun becoming more active.
Also the cosmic dust around the Earth actually creates, in some
cases, a warming effect because it can actually scatter light that
goes out into
space back onto the Earth, and creates sort of an interplanetary
This was something not only going on on the Earth, but also we see
evidence on Mars of canyons that appear to have been cut by
tremendous floods of water.
I believe that Mars is mostly covered by ice sheet. It’s sort
of like a tundra. The walls of the canyons are actually ice that
would have melted during some of these events.
there are cases where the Earth was being hit by super-sized coronal
mass ejections. We have evidence from the moon of glazed rocks and
one NASA scientist was suggesting that the moon was exposed to very
intense radiation from the sun to do this, something like 100-times
greater luminosity of the sun for at least 100 seconds.
my dissertation I suggested the alternative, that perhaps both the
Earth and moon had gotten engulfed in a coronal mass ejection, and
that this was hot enough to actually melt particles on the moon.
Does your theory accommodate the loss of water on Mars as a result
of a superwave action upon the sun?
Can you say more about the loss of water on Mars?
Well, my understanding is that Mars used to have water, and maybe
even plentiful water, and that at some point it disappeared, and
there are different theories to explain that disappearance.
Mars is about two kilometers deep in ice.
Right now, you mean.
It’s covered with an ice sheet from pole to pole. You might
find some areas where it’s more rock, but for the most part
does it look like dust, like a dusty surface? Because on Mars when
the sun shines on this icy surface, the ice sublimates, turns
directly to gas, and leaves the dust behind. So for the first few
centimeters it’s just dust, but below that is what we would
Has this been validated by the Rover, the Mars Rover?
Yeah, they had a Rover thing going around just a year ago or two.
They had pictures they sent back and, sure enough, there were chunks
of white which was really ice mixed in with the dirt. The reason they
know that it was ice, they took pictures a little while later when
the sun had a chance to shine on it and it had disappeared,
evaporated. [laughs] So this stuff is just below the surface.
fact, they see gullies which look like freshly-formed by running
water, so in some cases this ice melts. As long as it’s
underground, there’s enough pressure to make it turn into water
and it can actually gush out from the sides of some of these canyons
and create these ravines.
That’s pretty interesting.
I was saying this about Mars being covered with permafrost way back,
and as more and more data has come out with the satellites... They’ve
been doing radar sensing, and they find it’s several kilometers
or so deep with water there. It’s not pure water -- it’s
mixed with dust and stuff.
I wasn’t aware of that.
So going to Mars, there’s no question that we’ll find
water. I mean, wherever you land, all you have to do is get something
to melt whatever you dig up.
Okay. Let me take you back to the events of eleven, twelve thousand
years ago, whenever. One of the events on the legitimate historical
record, according to Plato, is the sinking of Atlantis round about
the same time as these mass extinctions of all the large mammals and
so on and so forth.
it possible that a superwave would be accompanied by the kind of
gravity wave that I believe, in your thinking, it doesn’t cause
a crustal displacement, but I think your words are it jerks
the planet to such a
degree that it can cause serious impact, resulting in earthquakes and
Yes. You don’t need to really have a huge displacement of the
pole to cause major seismic disturbance on the planet.
What about a magnetic pole shift? Is this related at all?
I believe the magnetic pole shifts are due to the sun’s effect
on the Earth. What happens there – I describe it in my thesis
and articles – when a coronal mass ejection arrives, the solar
cosmic ray particles get trapped in the Earth’s magnetic field.
They produce what are called storm-time
radiation belts around
particles end up drifting, the electrons in one direction, the
protons in the other, and this generates what they call a ring
current – this is
all accepted geophysics – and produces a magnetic field opposed
to the Earth’s field.
observed this after the 1956 solar proton event, when a coronal mass
ejection, a fairly large one, had hit the Earth. They observed a one
percent decrease of the magnetic field at that time.
all you have to do is scale that up a hundred times, and there were
in fact events that were that large around the time of the extinction
of the mammoths and ground sloths, and you do see carbon-14 spurts.
is something I’m about to publish. This is very new. I’ve
actually located in the ice core the event when that solar cosmic ray
burst hit the planet. That would have been enough particle energy to
actually cancel out the Earth’s magnetic field.
So you’re saying that the sinking of Atlantis resulted from
No. I have a totally different view of the Atlantis story. I believe
it’s an allegorical story. I don’t believe... and I’ve
argued with people who are Atlantis enthusiasts. They believe they’re
going to go out and find an island with moats and dikes around it.
that’s the part in Critias.
The Atlantis myth is broken into two parts, one in Plato’s Book
of Critias, and one in
Plato’s Book of
Critias myth is the creation of Atlantis and the Timaeus myth is
about The Flood, which, if you date the time it’s given in
Plato’s myth, it comes to about 11,600 years ago when in fact
there was a very accelerated period of glacial melting. The sea level
was rising very rapidly at that time, so you were having flooding.
believe that in the Timaeus myth Atlantis is symbolizing the ice
sheet. The sinking signifies the ice sheet was melting.
you remember in the myth, it was talking about Atlantis leaving
behind a shoal of mud. When ice melts and the floods subside, that’s
what you have, a shoal of mud. So in effect Atlantis, the North
American ice sheet, which is almost like a continent – they
speak of it as a continent – dissipated and is now in the
waters, the ocean.
fact in Plato’s book this is a discussion between Solon,
the ruler of Athens, and a priest in Egypt, at Sais,
Egypt. The priest tells him that these myths, like the story of
Atlantis or the conflagration myth about Phaeton
and the Sun Chariot, where the sun ended up burning the Earth, that
these are allegorical stories. These things didn’t really
happen the way the myths describe.
have to infer that this is a parable, look at it allegorically. For
example, he referred to the story of Phaeton, that this really
represents astronomical bodies in their effect on the Earth, in fact
in this case the sun.
So what about that they say that the magnetic poles are
shifting now. Do you agree with that?
By how much are they saying? [laughs]
Well, I’m not sure. Bill, can you explain? I think they’ve
actually said there is a noticeable shift recently.
Yeah. I don’t have the numbers. My understanding is that it’s
recognized that there looks to be a gradual shift happening because
of a weakness... There seems to be a gradual shift happening. I don’t
have the numbers. That may mean that it’s hard for us to talk
about but I thought that that was recognized. Maybe I’m wrong.
Well, the intensity of the magnetic field has changed over time.
It’s varied up and down by about 50 percent during this last
interglacial, the last 11,000 years. In fact it’s been
weakening since 2,000 years ago.
that’s a trend which probably could be continuing. I haven’t
looked at the same data you’re talking about.
Okay. To get back to the galactic superwave and its impact on Earth,
and when it could occur, are you using predictive... sort of
referencing certain things like the Tarot, like astrology, like, you
know, the I Ching, etcetera, to predict the coming of the superwave?
Okay. So what are you using?
It’s all based on science. And something we didn’t get
to is: What is the evidence for the past
event? I really didn’t get into that.
I made a series of predictions and one was if – and this was
the key test that I performed, but there were others – was that
if this had actually occurred, it would have pushed cosmic dust into
the solar system and we should, therefore, see higher levels at that
I did a study of ice core samples. I was sent some by Lonnie Thompson
and I also got some ice directly from the Ice Core Laboratory and
processed it myself.
used Neutron Activation Analysis, which is a technique where you
irradiate the dust that you filter out from the ice. You irradiate it
in a nuclear reactor and it becomes radioactive and you see what’s
was looking particularly for nickel and iridium,
which, for example, iridium is 10,000 times more abundant in cosmic
material than it is in the typical crustal material. I, in fact,
found peaks where the iridium level, for example, was hundreds of
times higher than what we normally get today, so it indicated
something was really happening.
was a discovery that was as significant as the discovery of the
iridium peak at the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary.
the difference there is you had a Nobel
Laureate in the team,
along with three others who were members of the Berkeley faculty. I
was with a moderately-known university, Portland State, but I was not
in an astronomy program or geology program; I was in the systems
this was passed over at the time. It was cited by some astronomers in
the UK – Victor
Klube – for his
own theory [laughs] actually before my results were published, which
ticked me off a little, saying that a comet had hit the Earth around
14,000 years ago.
it turned out, my dating was off at that time because ice cores
weren’t properly dated in those days – this was in the
early ’80s. When I finally found the proper dating of the ice
samples that I dated, it turned out they were between 35,000 and
70,000 years old, so I was looking at a period in the early-to-middle
Ice Age rather than the part I really wanted to test.
the ice was missing from the ice record from that period because it
had already been sampled. That was the most interesting area that
researchers wanted to look at was at the end of the Ice Age, so even
if I wanted to I couldn’t have studied that part.
Well, how do you account for that?
Why is the ice missing? Because other researchers sampled that very
heavily and all the ice got gobbled up. I came late in the game, so
to speak. Those cores had been around for at least five years before
I started my tests.
But what you’re saying is in essence that you did prove the
fact that there was an escalation in the amount of iridium, as you
Well, it was the first time elevated amounts of cosmic dust had been
found in the ice record. In fact, in one of the samples, I found high
levels of gold which would have been, if it was a mine-able deposit,
you could have made a lot of money in that section.
When was this?
That was around 50,000 years back.
Okay. Well, I’m not sure this is related at all, but my
understanding... I don’t know if you go back to the days of the
Anunnaki when they supposedly... you know, Zecharia Sitchin’s
work and the fact that they were mining gold to put into the
atmosphere of their own planet to protect it from the sun’s
rays and so on, the loss of atmosphere. Is there any correlation
there between your finding a lot of gold in the samples that you were
getting 50,000 years ago?
Well, gold is also an enhanced material in cosmic dust. You find
several hundred to a thousand times more gold in meteorites and
cosmic dust than you do, typical of Earth crust material. So the
Earth, I believe, was being exposed to increased amounts of gold
fact, gold nuggets could come from space. You have myth stories of
gold meteors, you know, where they find a nugget. In fact, this gold
tends to be concentrated at the bottom of gravel deposits. Whenever
there’s a flood, the heavy stuff’s going to deposit first
and so whatever was coming down ended up getting concentrated by
these floods in certain layers.
anyway, that was one victory for the hypothesis. Also, I was noticing
that certain supernova explosions – in fact this was part of
what tipped me off about the superwave phenomena – that it
wasn’t just an explosion at the center of the galaxy, but
something came out and was actually triggering supernova explosions
as it moved out from the center.
Oh, okay, so it’s actually affecting stars.
It affects stars, yes. Stars that are near ready to explode that
might be on the unstable part of their history, end up exploding.
example, the Vela
occurred at the time when this superwave was moving through our area.
The Vela is the closest supernova remnant to the solar system, that’s
of the young remnants; and then the Crab Nebula which was 6,000
light-years farther away, so it occurred later.
documented in the Chinese records of 1054 AD, July 4th [laughs] as it
turns out. That went off and it was seen.
have to figure that it takes time for the light to come to us, so
it’s like 6,500 light-years away in the direction opposite to
the galactic center. So you have to allow about 6,500 years for the
superwave to get out there, then it triggers this, and there’s
another 6,500 or so years. That’s why we saw it more recently.
I plotted the new supernova remnants, I found that they tend to line
up on this event horizon, as I call it. It’s actually an
ellipsoidal horizon when you plot it out with the Earth at one focus
and the galactic center at the other.
reason for that – why isn’t it a sphere? Because if you
think of this, actually the superwave travels out as a sphere, a
shell, but for us, we have to allow for time for the radiation to
reach us. So if these cosmic ray electrons are generating radio waves
at some star system, you have to allow time for that radiation to
reach us. What you see is that there’s a shell of radio
radiation out there that we’re inside of that’s being
generated by these superwave cosmic rays as they go out and they
interact with magnetic fields and so on.
you plot that on a graph, that model fits like a glove to what’s
called a cosmic radio background radiation, which is acknowledged
that it’s produced by cosmic rays, but scientists didn’t
really have a good explanation of why it’s there. You know,
they were suggesting: Well,
maybe these supernova explosions go out and contribute.
The superwave model prediction fit better than anything that had been
Is that the same background radiation that most cosmologists believe
is evidence of The Big Bang?
No. That’s the microwave background you’re talking
about. This is the galactic radio background.
And more recently they found there’s also a galactic gamma-ray
background which is a diffuse emission and they can’t explain
why it is diffuse. They would expect if it was due to stars, you
should see clumps here and there of gamma-rays. Instead, it’s
very diffuse. And again, I believe that’s due to the shell of
cosmic rays going out.
thing is that most of the energy from the superwave ends up being
directed outward from the galactic center, so once it passes you, you
don’t see it very easily. This radiation that we’re
seeing, that astronomers report, is only when the cosmic rays end up
getting caught in a magnetic field and they turn their searchlights
other words, they’re beaming that energy, that radio emission,
outward in the direction they’re traveling, but if they get
caught and turned around, we’ll see some of that. But that’s
a small fraction of those cosmic rays.
are very aware when it’s happening. When it arrives suddenly,
you know, we’re going to see a bluish-white star in the sky
similar to what the Hopis talk about and we’ll see a lot of
activity of sort of aurora-like things around the heliopause,
that shell around the solar system. We’ll see auroral activity
in our own magnetic field.
What about the effects on DNA? Have you posited any possible
Well, if you figure the levels we’re talking about... because
you can’t postulate too great cosmic ray intensities because
otherwise, if that was the case, the surface of the Earth would be
radioactive, like you’d have huge carbon-14 levels. In fact
that was a restriction that I had to put into my model.
at the levels that are reasonable, you would’ve had a slight
increase of mutation rate, maybe a doubling or tripling mutation rate
at that time.
it’s not really the superwave cosmic rays that are of most
concern. It’s the ones from the sun, because once the sun...
this is only in the case of very long-lasting superwaves where the
dust has come in and surrounded the sun long enough to aggravate it
into what we call a T
star. Because we see
stars similar to our sun that are in dust cocoons that are very
active and spewing out coronal mass ejections and super solar flares.
once the sun goes into that phase, and one of these very large events
– like extinction-level events – hits the Earth, then
not only are you dealing with major mutational change, but also
possible death if you happen to be caught outside when this happens.
it’s interesting, geologists have found a connection between
extinctions and magnetic reversals, and they couldn’t really
understand why is there this connection. If the Earth’s field
went to zero, you’d get maybe a doubling of the cosmic ray
background on the Earth, so that wouldn’t be enough to cause an
extinction; maybe it would accelerate a little the mutation rate.
if both were due to a coronal mass ejection from the sun – it
was an extinction-level event – that would explain it. So
they’re both due to a third cause in that case; they’re
not directly causally related.
It sounds very compelling, certainly to the degree that we can talk
with you about this on a non-scientific level, as it were, but what
measure of support and interest have you had from the mainstream
I’ve been, for example, to the Galaxy and Solar System
Conference and there was also the Lunar and Planetary Science
Conference in Houston where I gave a poster
paper. I stood in
front of a board where I had the whole thing laid out and explained
to people who would come up and did talk with some fairly high-level
cosmic ray astrophysicists who found the whole idea very plausible.
haven’t had anyone publish a paper against the theory. I was
hoping somebody would because I would have nailed their ears to the
wall. [laughs] I feel the evidence is so strong to support it.
in general, why aren’t they all coming on the bandwagon? Well,
it’s a major change of the paradigm. The paradigm is that
everything is calm out there; we don’t have anything to worry
about; you don’t want to get into catastrophism because that
makes you emotional; emotions shouldn’t be in science; we
shouldn’t be scared when we do science.
don’t really get scared by this; I’m just studying the
past. It’s something, you know... You’re concerned, it’s
something we should know about, about our future. But science has
traditionally stayed away from these areas, anything dealing with
you look at all the flack that the group from Berkeley got when they
made a discovery about the dinosaurs being hit with a comet or
asteroid... they were attacked by many people, many geologists who
felt that we should only do geology based on what’s happening
on the Earth: volcanoes, this sort of thing.
that was something 65 million years ago. Now you can imagine what I’m
talking about, just 13,000 years ago – or 16,000 – it’s
within the realm of the human race and so people are more fearful to
join. They’re wondering: Well,
if I write in support of his theory, what’re the consequences
I have had my paper cited, that I published. I published in refereed
journals, in several well-known, in Monthly
Notices, in Astrophysics
and Space Science, to
name a few; EOS,
which is more of a scientific newsletter.
Aren't you dealing with, also – I mean, this galactic
superwave, you’re also dealing with this kinetic physics?
Subquantum Kinetics, as being part of this galactic superwave theory
in some way, form, or fashion. If you’re talking about
subquantum physics, you’re also talking about what
is the aether made of,
such that the galactic superwave will impact or create... how it
impacts space and how it impacts...
Well, aether’s a controversial topic which, indeed, Subquantum
Kinetics is an aether theory. But you don’t have to bring that
in for this superwave phenomenon. The superwave phenomenon can be
based totally in the current view of physics, pretty much.
I understand that, but I’m interested because you obviously
are thinking about both things, that there must be some kind of place
where they link up in your own mind, in theory.
Well, it was really my work in Subquantum Kinetics that brought me
to the discovery of the superwave phenomenon. That’s through a
long path. [laughs]
Can you explain that in sort of easy terms to understand, at all?
Well, I had been developing Subquantum Kinetics for many years. I’d
basically written up the early papers which I was at the point of
ready to submit. I had already submitted to a few journals.
the same time, in the meanwhile, I was studying ancient lore. Back in
1975 I had discovered that the Tarot encodes concepts very similar to
what I was talking about in the physics. I did take a class in
Cambridge, Massachusetts, on the Tarot and as the teacher was going,
the Tarot is a set of 22 cards that are used in fortune-telling, but
they date back to the Middle Ages from the Gypsies. The earliest
decks are attributed to the Gypsies, which had migrated from India
through Egypt. Esoteric scholars believe that they had picked up the
concepts from the Egyptian priests, prior to the collapse of the
the very early days of the kingdoms of Egypt [when] the priests were
in power, they had an indoctrination into this ancient science that
explained how the universe was created. That these concepts –
at that time they were frescoes on the wall of the chamber that the
new priests were brought in and taught the meanings – that
these were later put into the Tarot deck.
Can you trace one of those particular scientific concepts as
depicted in the Tarot and how that relates to kinetic...
Subquantum Kinetics? Well, Subquantum Kinetics is based on process.
It’s the idea of... It’s alchemical aether, basically.
It’s an aether that’s not static like the 19th
century aether that
physics grew out of, but one more like, closer to Heraclitus’
concept. He was an ancient Greek philosopher who said that all is
closest is to think of the...
Isn't that like saying: all
is motion? Aren’t
you talking about everything being in motion?
That’s close to the idea but here it’s more a reaction.
There is motion, just like you have in a chemical solution. You have
molecules diffusing from one place to another place, but they’re
it’s the same understanding you have for how your own body
works. How is it that the structure of our body is made from the
reactions and diffusions of chemicals?
this is a very organic concept. It’s more like close to the
organic ideas of Star
Wars, of The
Force, very close, that
the galaxy’s bound together. The universe being bound together
by a fabric, an organic fabric. It’s sort of like every part of
space that’s ether is affecting every other part of space.
Okay. And if I called it “energy,” would that be the
I don’t use “energy” because I save that for
ElectroMagnetic waves. It’s energy-like but you can’t
speak of energy at the subquantum level.
Oh, I see.
It’s some... There’s a prime mover, something that moves
this reaction forward. It’s uni-directional. It’s sort of
like the direction of Time in the big sense, capital T, moving
We have a secret witness that also talks about he's tapping into
what he calls the information
field. And when we said:
Is that the same as the
consciousness field? He
would say: No,
because he thinks the
consciousness field is,
you know, is individual-based whereas this thing he’s calling
the information field
would encompass everything.
there any kind of way you could have a dialogue about that, because
this gets to signal non-locality, for example, if you’re
familiar with that.
My view is that to explain what’s here we have to postulate
higher dimensions and a flux of aether that we cannot directly
measure but only hypothesize. The way you know it’s there,
there are experiments that you can do that shows that there is an
absolute reference frame, that Relativity is wrong. I give many
experiments in my book.
fact, the geopositioning system that the military uses is based on
the idea that light goes faster in the direction of the Earth’s
rotation than the opposite direction. If they didn’t accept
that, which is anti-relativistic, they would not locate people that
are forces on the Earth; they would maybe bomb the wrong embassy.
Okay. So if you could explain in terms of, I don’t know if you
can do this, but in terms of your subatomic model, how can you
explain that to us on the basis of an experiment?
Well, there’s what’s called chemical waves. At the time
I was getting the idea for Subquantum Kinetics they’d just
published work on the Belousov-Zhabotinskii
reaction, which is a
chemical reaction where you put some dyes in there that change from
red to blue, depending on the state of the reaction. And there’s
a molecule, cerium,
which can go between two valence states.
the reaction churns forward, cerium, in one given place and space,
oscillates. They call it chemical
if you stir this up with a little stirrer, your reaction will change
from red to blue just like a clock and they call it the chemical
clock. But if you leave it unstirred and calm, it will form little
wave patterns sort of like a bull’s-eye pattern with, let’s
say, a blue center and a red ring, and then a blue ring, and so on,
an effect like...
Meaning a spiral?
No. Actual concentric rings, like Atlantis? [laughs] In my book,
of the Cosmos,
I suggest that the
Atlantis myth is actually they’re describing a subatomic
particle, based on this new physics.
understand that my theory came out of systems theory. It was only
later I saw the connection with the ancient science that was being
getting back to the reaction, this would be red and blue waves. They
become spiral waves. In fact, they were on the cover of this
magazine, spiral waves, because they’re more artistically
appealing so that’s why they concentrated about spiral waves.
But that happens only when you give a little mechanical disturbance
so that the rings reconnect to form a spiral.
I see. Uh-huh. So, how does this...?
Well, how does this relate? I thought: Well,
this is an interesting model for subatomic particles.
I was reading Einstein’s treatise in Scientific
American. He was talking
about his difficulty in unifying electromagnetism and gravitation.
there it talked about his view that there were no such things as
singularities, which would mean Einstein himself would be against the
Black Hole Theory. His reason was it would disrupt the space-time
fabric, which he believed should be continuous.
believed particles were places of bunched energy, so to speak, and I
was saying: Well, here,
this is looking like a bunching here where you have a core with this
wave pattern around so the core is really a high concentration of a
I was saying: Instead of
working with molecules like you do in chemistry, let’s come up
with a new name:
Aetherance [spelling unclear;
pronounces it ether-ahns] I
initially called it sub-physical
units, but later I said:
What the heck. Go all the
Let’s forget about the taboos.
The aether is an ancient concept and people weren’t afraid of
you look at the real experimental evidence and stop regarding science
as a religion... You know, it is very religious, in some ways, in the
sense that existing physicists religiously believe in their theories
to the point of ignoring the evidence against them.
you can imagine this soup of ‘etherance’
of different types: A, B, C, D, and so on, reacting according to
certain recipes. What I did was come up with a set of reactions which
I believed were physically realistic.
other words, they created physically-realistic particles that
produced electric and gravitational fields just like regular matter
that would obey the classical laws of electrostatics and gravitation
that would bind – have nuclear bonding – and also have
spin characteristics. That made certain predictions, astronomical
predictions, one being that light waves, that their energy should not
be constant but, over great distances of going through intergalactic
space, they should lose energy – in other words, redshift.
They do. That’s what’s called the cosmological redshift,
where scientists have interpreted a cosmological redshift as an
actual velocity effect due to a recession of a galaxy. In other
words, if the galaxy moves away, it would cause this effect, which is
a very mechanical, mechanistic interpretation.
Tired Light Theory, as
it’s called – the idea that light waves lose energy as
they travel – was proposed about the same time as this other
theory. But the thing was, they didn’t have a reason for it to
occur, another way to interpret it, and the more mechanistic was more
easily grasped, and so they went with that. That’s why we have
the expanding universe theory today.
wrote a paper for the Astrophysical
Journal in 1986, which is
the top journal in astrophysics – it’s the same one that
Hubble published in, the astronomer they attribute the expanding
universe to – and showed that, if you look at the data and
compare the expanding universe model to the stationary universe
model, with Tired Light Effect instead of motional effect, you find
that the Tired Light model always comes closer to your data.
did it on four tests, and the reason I did it on four tests is that
when you adjust your model – because Big Bang theorists are
adjusting their model to fit the data because it never fits the data.
So if they want to adjust their model, it’s fine with me, but
they have to be consistent in what are its effects on these other
you find that their model ends up getting pushed further from the
data as soon as they try to adjust it here. That’s why they’ll
always publish on one test and not on four simultaneously.
Okay, you’re talking about Tired Light. How does this relate
to your theory of kinetics – subquantum physics?
Well, that’s one of the predictions that came out of
Subquantum Kinetics. That was a testable prediction and I went ahead
and tested it by looking at the data to see did it support it or was
the Big Bang Theory correct?
at that time, I was just like everyone else, believing in the Big
Bang Theory, but I wanted to give this a chance, and you know, slowly
I realized: My God!
Subquantum Kinetics is right and all this other stuff is baloney that
they’ve been teaching.
So what happens? Tired Light means you’re talking about energy
dissipating, right? Or changing form?
Actually, in Subquantum Kinetics, the energy actually leaves the
physical universe in the sense that the wave just diminishes in
amplitude. Energy is not a constant in Subquantum Kinetics. Why?
Because Subquantum Kinetics proposes that the physical universe
behaves like an open system.
is an open system? It’s like... we’re an open system,
biological organism. We must eat, have input and output; we must
breathe, we take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide. If those
processes cease, we die.
same with the chemical reaction model, the chemical waves. You only
see the waves as long as the chemical reactions are taking place. As
soon as they use up the food chemicals and they go to equilibrium,
the waves disappear, dematerialize, so to speak.
the same for this physics – the physical universe would
dematerialize if this flux, which we should all be thankful for in my
opinion, were to ever diminish or cease.
Well then, between dimensions... I mean, I don’t know if this
is related, but, in theory, between dimensions, then, that’s
exactly what must happen. In order to dematerialize and move between
dimensions that energy has to dissipate, or come down to zero, so
that you can move to the next [dimension], because if it
dematerializes it goes into another dimension.
Okay, you’re talking about a physical being, like a human
being, wanting to...
You're talking about the soul?
Well, actually, what I’m thinking about is the ability for
even ghosts or ETs to go through walls. And now we’re actually
seeing movies in which, you know, the Powers That Be have created –
and I don’t know how they do it – but they create
techniques by which you can change the composition of a wall such
that you can go through it.
Yes. This is something that’s possible...
This model works on the subatomic level that you’re talking
Okay, well then it has to work all the way up. Right? To the fact
that you get to the larger particles, bodies...
Yeah. With Subquantum Kinetics, you can explain dematerialization
and re-materialization. This is something that’s easily done.
It involves a change of the gravity potential. If you were to
increase the gravity potential enough, an object would dematerialize.
Or at first it would become invisible which means if you look at a...
Change the gravity such that it become heavier or lighter?
It would be lighter.
Like the sun is in a gravity well. The sun is in a very materialized
state. [laughs] If we were to go out into space way far from the
galaxy, because the galaxy itself is in a gravity well, we would go
into the area where I was saying photons lose energy, this Tired
Light Effect. Everything there would tend towards a homogeneous state
[and] would tend to dematerialize.
the opposite effect is within the galaxy, instead of having light
losing energy, it gains energy here. It’s the opposite, and you
have blueshifting of light. In fact, I made a prediction. I called up
JPL in 1980. I said: Have
you seen anything with your signals to your spacecraft, microwave
signals, maybe a slight blueshifting of the signal?
said: Well, no. We haven’t
really looked for such a thing.
said: Well, keep an eye
open, see what you see, because if so, it would support my theory.
right about seven years later or so, eight years later, they start
noticing... Oh, by the way, I published this in 1985 as a test of my
theory that if you did a test, sending a microwave signal from Earth
to Jupiter, to a spacecraft in Jupiter, and relayed it back, you’d
find the energy was slightly higher. And I said: How
much? Because my theory
would predict what that amount of increase would be.
about seven or eight years later, they start noticing something
is a little peculiar in our data, it’s becoming blueshifted;
it’s as if there’s a force pushing the spacecraft towards
finally published this in 1998 and it became known as The
Pioneer Effect. Then they
published further information four years later.
there have been thousands, literally thousands of papers written by
physicists about the Pioneer Effect, trying to explain it, what it
is. There’s only one paper published before it was discovered
that predicted it, and that was in my publication of Subquantum
Kinetics. It was published in 1985 in the International
Journal of General Systems.
So did JPL come find you when you were proven correct?
I sent a copy of my book marked where I made the prediction. I
actually took a picture of the original journal and marked where it
was stated, and also sent a copy of my book which further explained,
to the head man on that publication team at JPL.
it was ignored. He didn’t even send me a preprint of his paper
that I requested. So all I had was the news announcement. He never
told me, you know: Well,
it’s going to be published in this journal on this page.
He never told me that. And I was never mentioned four years later in
a follow-up paper.
you know, my experience is that the average physicist or NASA
scientist or astronomer is a cowboy. He’s interested in his own
theories, not in yours. If he confirmed yours... he’s not
interested. [laughs] That’s the way it works.
Yeah. It's worked like that for a long time.
Okay, but the implications of what you discovered could point to the
reality of other dimensions. As you say, dematerialization. Actually,
you may be on the road to explaining how other dimensions could
Right. Subquantum Kinetics is a Unified Field Theory. It explains
all the forces that unified field theories deal with, and it fits
together like a Swiss watch. Relativity effects come out of it as
corollaries; you don’t have to postulate ad hoc like Einstein
are now twelve predictions that were previously published that said
things entirely different from what physicists were saying, that were
later verified by observation. So, certain things it has predicated
were confirmed, and I don’t know of anything that’s said
so far that’s been disproved.
gives you a lot of encouragement to believe that we’ve got
something here. Plus the fact, looking at General Relativity, it had
only three predictions that were confirmed. Now we’re dealing
here with twelve.
you find that ancient civilizations had this physics. They went to a
lot of trouble to encode it in some of their most important creation
myths that historians have written about. It’s even encoded in
the Zodiac even though the Zodiac is used for horoscopes.
of the main technologies used in field propulsion, this exotic
propulsion that’s developed in black projects. In fact, the B2
bomber, I discussed in my recent book Secrets
of Antigravity Propulsion.
I explain how the B2 bomber uses Brown’s research and patents.
Basically it’s based on his ideas.
with Subquantum Kinetics, it’s not just explaining Brown’s
work but a whole host of other technologies, too, like John
Surrell’s [sp unknown]
technology [or] Eugene
gravity impulse beam which, he's able to produce gravity impulses
from electric shock discharges which are gravity impulses collimated,
can go for kilometers
and kilometers staying together.
he’s found it actually travels superluminally. So this could be
the centerpiece of a superluminal propulsion engine.
what I’ve seen, I’ve seen actual demonstrations of
superluminal shock propagation in the laboratory –
work. And with this technology of Podkletnov’s,
I would say it’s possible to do superluminal space travel,
which completely changes our outlook of interstellar communication
and interaction with other beings. It is possible that they could
actually travel here.
thing that comes out of Subquantum Kinetics is it completely changes
what we think is possible for energy, and you find these technologies
where they’re getting energy out of water like John
that they’re developing in the UK. They say they’ll have
a hot water heater out in the next year-and-a-half or so.
produced by Black
Light Power company.
He’s got something like 20 of these prototypes being tested
that he believes will produce 50 kilowatts of power for your average
are explained by Subquantum Kinetics because Subquantum Kinetics
leads to a revision of quantum mechanics. There’s a flaw in
quantum mechanics. Even though quantum mechanics is workable, the
model is incorrect; the wave-packet
model is incorrectly
you go to the Subquantum Kinetics version, you get the same results.
It explains experiments with the same mathematics, essentially, but
it allows the possibility for ground-states in the hydrogen atom that
are more levels of energy in the hydrogen atom. It allows the
hydrogen electron to jump down and release energy that we thought
wouldn’t be there. That’s what these various scientists
have tapped into with their inventions.
Subquantum Kinetics leads to the development of a lot of new energy
sources that would be considered alternative energy.
It’s hard to understand why other quantum physicists haven’t
picked up your work with a lot of enthusiasm. What’s your
explanation for this? Is it because it’s too big a scope, or
it’s too grand
It’s that. It’s too big a shift. New theories are picked
up if you’re not changing the basic structure, the basic
paradigm. If it’s a new idea within the existing paradigm, it
will be very quickly picked up if it’s going to explain things
talking about basically wiping the slate clean as far as theories go,
most theories, most modern theories. You can keep some of the classic
equations, Newton’s equations and so on. But...
Well, Maxwell’s... no. It even revises that. You have to look
at Maxwell’s equations as a model of a phenomenon; it explains
electromagnetic wave propagation in a different way.
one thing, Maxwell’s equations, at least the accepted version,
have energy being conserved. It means that energy of a photon can
neither increase, nor decrease, whereas here, as we were saying
earlier, over great distances you will see a change.
are a set of principles which are considered sacred in physics. One
is the First Law of Thermodynamics, this idea that energy cannot be
changed, only converted.
And you’re changing that law, really, are you not?
Right. And I can show technologies which you can perform in your
back yard garage which show a violation of energy conservation.
of these electrostatic thrusters like Jean-Louis
Naudin has on his
website – some LaForgue
they’re basically asymmetrical capacitors that he’s got
in a pinwheel arrangement. When you calculate how much energy he’s
putting in to drive that pinwheel, it’s a lot less than the
motion he’s getting out of it. He’s getting out about
three times more motional energy than the electric...
It has to be an open system, to go back to what you were saying
The universe. Yeah. As soon as you view the universe as an open
system, you have to realize that energy’s not necessarily
conserved. Pretty much all system theorists will agree with you. If
your physics is postulating an open system for the universe, then you
do have the possibility of matter or energy increasing or decreasing
in amount in a physical universe.
thing is that this is like just a small shadow on the... sort of an
epiphenomenon of this vast flux that’s going on below the level
of observation, so that’s where your real energy... It’s
In other words, just for this table, this stool, or chair to be there
requires an enormous expenditure of action, subquantum flux, which is
totally invisible to us and we only infer that it’s there
through a series of conceptual models and understandings.
Are you able to theoretically predict the physics behind an
overunity engine as a result of this? Can you predict how to design
one before you start tinkering in your garage with this?
It could lead to some predictions of that sort, but the way it’s
generally worked with me is I’ve read about people’s work
in this area and find that I can explain what they’re finding
with Subquantum Kinetics.
Okay, yeah. Sorry, perhaps I didn’t form my question in the
right way. What I really meant was, from your theoretical
understanding, could you predict which engineering approaches are
more likely to be successful?
Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I think that with this physics, you can
explain a lot of the technologies they’re developing in the
Black Projects for field propulsion. I wouldn’t be surprised if
a lot of my readers are in the Black Projects. I would have no way of
[laughs] Yeah, that’s what I was thinking.
They were actually working on aether theories in the ’50s to
explain electrogravitics. Townsend
Brown was developing
an aether theory. They were working on one at Douglas Aircraft which,
apparently, they ditched and it eventually was declassified somehow.
Maybe it was just some notes that somebody had that were supposed to
be classified, but they were leaked out.
conversations I’ve had with some Black Projects engineers who
acknowledged that, to them, the aether is real, that they realize the
faults of Relativity. When they recruit, they prefer that the people
they’re recruiting haven’t had their minds polluted with
current physics. They try to get them at an early age.
That’s exactly what we’d heard is that they've got some
very, very bright, astute minds.
And it’s actually to the advantage of keeping the secrecy that
they would see it’s good for them to keep teaching the baloney
in the universities that they realize is wrong because what they’re
doing is impossible in that frame of mind, and it’s very
difficult for people to get out of that. It’s sort of like
asking the goldfish to discharge its tank of water. It’s not
going to want to do that very easily.
Oh, sure. But it must be immensely personally frustrating for you to
consider the possibility that your work may well, not only be
correct, but be taken to levels which you’d love to be in on.
And yet you’re locked out of this because maybe they’re
considering they don’t need you, they understand it already.
That’s the kind of expediency that they would...
I’ve actually be asked to participate in one project that was
being formed, gotten off the ground, but I saw that it was going to
be secret even though they were intending it to eventually be open,
but you never really can be sure what will be the result. [laughs]
So why did you stand back from that? What was your motivation?
I guess there's the risk of being locked in on the wrong side of the
Yeah, when you start working in secrecy, you feel a little stifled.
Are you that rare thing, a “Scientist with a Conscience?”
Is that why?
I guess you’d say so. Yeah.
And is that a result of your parents’ influence, would you
say, to some degree, or something else?
Oh yeah. I would say that’s part of it. You know, it’s
just me, I guess. My interest is in helping humanity. I’m
interested in the truth and not living in some dream, some belief
system that other people are telling you and it doesn’t fit the
Also the elite, in other words, the elitism around using technology
or using the truth only for a certain group of people, perhaps, is
going against the grain?
Yeah. The thing is, who is controlling the Black Projects? As soon
as they’re black, I mean, they’re not even acknowledged
by Congress or whatever government has them. Somebody’s pulling
the strings and there are some people that suggest they aren’t
even from Earth, if you believe...
Now, can we get back to... I mean, you did say that you had some
kind of contact experience that affected you. Are you able to
describe that in some detail to us?
Well, it was basically an inner experience I had when I was at Johns
Hopkins in my junior year. I felt that it was information coming into
was in a certain mental state; I felt there were intelligences from
the plant kingdom. I felt they were terrestrial, that the trees were
talking to me – the vegetation kingdom of Earth – that
was concerned about the way we were going. They were concerned also
about being wiped out by the progress of human societies, like we’re
out of control here with growth. Sort of like the movie
that whole concept.
the same time they were giving me the basic understanding that the
basis of existence is flux.
Because if you have flux, you can always produce structure.
other words, if the flux goes in a loop, now you have something that
exists over time because it’s the same and
the same. Whereas if
you start with structure, structure itself doesn’t imply flux
because you’re dealing with something that’s static. Why
should it move? It’s static.
that’s the beauty of flux. And that shifted my whole
perspective, and I started on this quest of understanding nature,
developing my own system theory before I knew there was such a thing
as System Theory.
eventually lead into development of physics, this Subquantum Kinetics
which I developed while I was studying business, actually, at
University of Chicago. There was a course on Organization Theory and
we were asked to write a term paper. The course was studying General
System Theory and viewing businesses as open systems.
was in this experience where I started melding the idea of open
systems with Einstein’s article that I had read, and chemical
waves, and so on, and suddenly had this epiphany. The paper didn’t
end up being on business. [laughs] The professor, who had a
behavioral psychological background, ended up giving it to a friend
of his, who had a physics background, to evaluate.
And the rest, as they say, is history. [laughs] Because that sounds
like it propelled you into the direction you’ve gone on.
Yeah. I remember I had a sort of what you’d call a kundalini
experience during that where I was awake all night writing, and then
I’d sleep during the day and get up late afternoon and be
walking around in the mall, the university, the grass area between
the buildings, and would look at a tree and I could see this energy
flux in the tree, or the stone looked like it was alive.
of like the view of the shaman Indians because it completely shifts
your perspective when you go to this. It’s more close to the
Hindu idea of maya. That
maya is illusion; the physical is an illusion that’s just...
we’re waves on this... The real essence is the ether which is
Is that connected with David Bohm’s Implicate
It’s close. The concepts of Subquantum Kinetics are similar in
some respects to David Bohm’s theory, but David Bohm’s
working in General Relativity, a relativistic framework. He hasn’t
completely wiped the slate clean here.
accept some of his concepts, like his idea of stochastic fluctuations
as a representation of zero-point energy that this is not just the
idea of probabilism in quantum mechanics, is not just some equation
you’re writing, but it has a real basis in some thing, some
medium, having stochastic behavior there. In this case I would say
it’s the aether.
I use different terms. I speak of the implicit
order and the explicit
order. The implicit order
is the etheric order. It’s ordered in the sense of the reaction
pathways that are very defined.
explicit order is the wave order that we see, that we’re able
to see. We need waves to see other waves, you know; everything is
waves. So that’s the quantum realm.
subquantum is the implicit order and the quantum is the explicit
order and the explicit order evolves out of the implicit order. The
reason why we have a particle – it’s a wave pattern,
subatomic particles – the reason that exists is because you
have this cyclical yin/yang sort of reaction going on at the
subquantum level, so it’s just a manifestation of what’s
already there. It just emerges.
It leads to a continuous creation cosmology.
So that matter is being continuously created, even this moment. It’s
not something that happened all at once like the Big Bang Theory
says. It’s going on, especially at the highest rate at the
center of the galaxy, but also within stars and planets.
Well, what about the idea that it’s going on outside of the
galaxy in other... Like there’s the theory of
Ananda Bosman talking
about what he calls the
Great Magnetic Attractor,
that there is other... And you’re saying that within the galaxy
there’s a black hole, or whatever, it’s not a black hole,
but you’re saying it's...?
Mother Star, I call it.
A very old star. It’s the oldest star in the galaxy.
So beyond this... Because there’s lots of galaxies, right? So
do you go beyond that?
Yeah. Every galaxy is creating matter and energy and if that
continues, these galaxies will grow and grow. They’ll spawn
other galaxies because they’ll eject star clusters. You know,
every time the core explodes, it ejects star clusters. That’s
what populates the halo of the galaxy. Some of these, if they’re
very large ejections, will actually be small galactic nuclei that
will end up spawning another galaxy.
of the Large
and Small Magellanic Clouds
that are very close. They could have been ejections from our own
galactic core, or maybe they just happened to nucleate close by, but
you do see some that look like they came out of from the core of a
Halton Arp, an
astronomer, talks about this, that some of these look as if they were
ejections from active cores.
eventually you could say – an extreme – maybe the whole
universe becomes filled with matter and energy. It’s very
possible, before it would even get to that point, that the set-point
that’s causing all this creation would change, you know,
something that might have a period of several hundred-trillion years,
like in the Hindu view.
mythology talks about Vishnu waking up every so many hundred-trillion
years and everything dematerializes. All of the maya
is withdrawn and everyone realizes all along we were Vishnu, we were
But is it possible there could be, then, another eruption?
Yeah. This idea that not only we have cycles in terms of core
explosions, but also the whole universe goes through a cycle of
creation and dissolution.
So you’re no fan of the standard Big Bang Theory?
Well, it’s interesting that they had it right in one way –
there are big bangs, but they’re at the centers of galaxies.
There wasn’t a single Big Bang creating everything.
interestingly, these big bangs are
associated with creation because the creation rate is the highest in
the Mother Star, as I call it, in the core of the galaxy and that's
really going out of control. It’s like a nuclear reactor going
super-critical where it ends up going into a very active state,
this matter and energy that had been created for thousands of years
is now expelled, and as this is moved away out from the core, then
the gravity potential field that was gradually getting deeper and
deeper around the core now comes up a bit and it cools off, the
reaction cools off. Because, like I was saying, in Subquantum
Kinetics this whole creation process is tied to the level of gravity
potential, so that’s why there’s a cycle involved.
always going on, but then it gets really extreme and goes through
this outburst, and then things subside. It’s almost like with a
volcano that releases the pressure that’s built up underneath
and then it goes into a quiescent period.
Going back to Maxwell and electrogravitics, have you spoken with Tom
We met. We were talking more about his free energy device, which I
don’t know if he’s actually got it working at this point.
Actually, there’s some concepts that are similar. Bearden has
some similar thinking on some areas to Subquantum Kinetics, but we
haven’t really discussed it.
Okay. But rather than drill down there, because we need to wrap this
up, is there a way we could kind of pull in some of these threads
into something that would kind of make sense in terms of where you
might be going now with your work, and why?
Well, like right now I’m writing a paper on the mass
extinction at the end of the Ice Age which I believe was due to a
solar cause, a coronal mass ejection striking the Earth. I’m
hoping that by advancing in various areas... it’s sort of like
a front that you’re pushing in various places. Like, before, I
was writing more on the Subquantum Kinetics, now it’s more
close to climatology and catastrophism.
the hopes that some advance will get people very excited, I’m
hoping this will get them excited and attract more attention to what
I’ve been saying.
Well, what about the idea of... are you thinking that you might be
getting close to some kind of model of consciousness itself?
I have done work on that, too, as the Feeling-Tone
Theory model that I
developed in the ’80s based on Bill
who’s a systems psychologist / psychiatrist, and melded his
idea that thought is really based on feeling-tones, spirit –
really, feelings, when you get down to it – and was able to
explain how those feeling-tones emerge into a thought, using concepts
which are similar to what I use to develop Subquantum Kinetics.
system theorist can go at a very abstract level and bring stuff from
one field into another which is what I did there. That theory also
matched very closely with a lot of neuro-physiological data, a wide
spectrum. It was sort of like hitting the target eleven times.
did some consulting to Hughes Aircraft which used that as their way
of enhancing creativity and I was later told that they saved
$40-million dollars using this approach, if you put some price on the
increase of creativity that resulted.
I think it’s safe to talk about that since Hughes Aircraft
isn’t around anymore.
It’s all been broken up.
It would nice to be rewarded with a few percent of that added value.
Yeah. I mean, Starburst could do a lot more in contacting the
scientific community and attending conferences if we had our coffers
Yeah. I read, for instance, that there’s some just routine
scientific work that is expensive but accepted like, for instance,
mass spectrographic analysis of ice core samples. That would really
do a lot to bolster your theory but it just hasn’t been done
because it’s so expensive and you’re working on your own.
Yeah. In fact, this theory of the mammoths and mammals being wiped
out by a coronal mass ejection -- it wasn’t just one. There was
a series over a several thousand year period, but there was one real
major one that sort of ended it.
can test that. I’ve located the place in the ice core. All we
need to do then is sample for beryllium-10 and see the beryllium-10
spike up at that time; look also at carbon-14 in sediment cores.
These are things that can be done to test the theory, so I’m
hoping once I get this published, I can convince some others, some
colleagues, that we team up and do this.
Right. Because that’s simple stuff. I mean, scientifically
speaking, that’s simple stuff.
Okay. Well, let’s say that maybe this interview will kind of
go towards that direction of attracting people to you that could make
these things possible for more investigation in all of these areas
that you’re working in. But I want to thank you very much for
taking the time to explain this to us in a way that we could
understand it, which I think you did well, and hopefully, we can
learn more about your theories and also the applications of those and
see what pans out in the future.
And we do know that are some smart people in high places who do
watch our videos because they’re never quite sure what we’re
going to come out with [laughter] and they watch us quite carefully.
And these are not necessarily bad guys. These are smart guys and
they're good guys and it’s entirely possible...
Some of them.
Some of them are. And it’s entirely possible that if your work
hasn’t come fully to their attention, it may just give them a
little prod to take another good look at what you have to offer here.
You know, what you mentioned about you heard from this fellow who
was in touch with a black project, or he was a black projects
engineer and talking about space travel with superluminal spaceships?
I wouldn’t be surprised if part of that is misinformation. I
don’t think it was our
superluminal spaceship he’s talking about. It was from an ET
civilization; they’ve been in touch with ETs who told them
Entirely possible, and that may have been entirely accidental
because he may well have been relating that story second- or
third-hand, but the principle is that he said: There
is a wave coming.
couldn’t describe it exactly. He wasn’t a physicist,
actually. He was an operative rather than an engineer. He said he
thought the timescale was more like 2017, but he did say that
superluminal craft had been out taking a look at it and reported what
was going on.
said it could... I think his words were something like: It
could just be a puff of wind or it could turn the Earth on its axis,
but nobody really knows what’s going to happen.
Well, I recently deciphered a crop circle, the Avalon one from 2008
that shows the solar system, the planets, arranged as they would be
I think I remember reading something, or you were talking about
this: Hey! You know,
Pluto’s not where it should be.
David Wilcock uses that in one of his talks.
It’s obviously in the wrong place.
Right, because I know one fellow who’s believing that this
means a superwave will arrive in 2012 and he’s actually working
with people to build a shelter down in Australia right now, expecting
that this will hit in 2012.
my reaction is, why would they put that obvious error in there? So I
looked at it and noticed in the diagram that appeared one week later
that shows what looks like Neptune’s orbit, that circle, and
it’s marked, which seems to represent Pluto’s
crossing-point on Neptune’s orbit.
it’s got a little elliptical diagram with little circles, as if
dividing it in eleven equal parts, and to me that’s an
elliptical exaggeration of Pluto’s orbit – so that we
don’t mistake it as a circle – showing eleven
subdivisions of Pluto’s orbit. If you take the period of
Pluto’s orbit and you divide it by eleven, you come to the
amount that Pluto’s displaced in that crop circle.
And if you add that to 2012, you come to 2035 AD with the exact
date, June 8th, when that crop circle appeared. In other words, it
would have been 27 years into the future from 2008, which is
So what are they saying? Does that mean that’s when a
superwave will arrive? Will it be the time when the current one will
end? That it might arrive 2012? Or what? We don’t know.
there is something on the pulsar diagram that even before this
happened I had written about it on my website. Somebody had
discovered that, having read my book, they wrote me an email and
said: By the way, did you
know that the periods you put, you attracted our attention to the
Crab and Vela Pulsars –
which are these two supernova remnants which are very important,
close to us, and in addition the Vulpecula Pulsar.
I had stated the
periods for these three, that they sort of form a symbolic arrow, if
you understand the pulsar diagram, as I call it – that
the periods are very close to the Fibonacci series which creates the
sure enough, if you take the ratios of the two longer-period ones,
they come to the Golden Mean ratio, to within that. It’s 10-5,
the difference; in other words, one hundred thousandth is the
deviation from that being perfect.
Hmm. That’s pretty close.
But you notice that the Crab period is significantly off – and
this is assuming if the second is the universal standard in
extraterrestrial communication now, because I’m suggesting that
the pulsars are an extraterrestrial message that pulsars at 33
milliseconds – so it’s really 34 is the number you come
up with in the Fibonacci series.
if you say: When would the
Crab Pulsar have that period where it ends up being 34 milliseconds?
Well, it’s in the future by so many years and it comes out not
very far from this 2035 date; I was coming up with something like
2037 or so, 2038. So it seems like something’s going on here.
Right. So there’s some kind of message there but you’re
actually deciphering it differently than some of the 2012
enthusiasts, if you will.
Yeah. I think there’s not enough information to immediately
conclude that they’re telling us we will be hit by a superwave
in 2012, although a lot of people have contacted me who’ve said
they’ve been in telepathic contact with ETs who are telling
them: 2012 – a
superwave will arrive.
fact, one fellow said he had this ET contact and they were telling
him about cosmic ray wave coming and he wanted to know more
information about it so they said: Well,
just look up the work of Paul L.
he did a surf on it with Google and found my work. I don't know if
this is true. Maybe they’re aware of my website. I don’t
know... up there.
Okay, so that’s a great place to end. Thank you, that’s
lovely. Thank you very much, Paul LaViolette.
Wonderful. Thank you.
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