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transcript - Part 4

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John Lear Tells All
- Part 4
Las Vegas, Nevada, April 2008

(continued from Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3)

... We found a... what we assume is a fission reactor 29 miles in diameter. You can see the dome there. You can see the support sections there.

Start of interview

Kerry Cassidy: Have we missed anything, John? Is there something that you wanted to cover that we haven’t had a chance to look at?

John Lear: Just let me talk a little bit about this civilization on the Moon, because that’s been the thrust of my...

K: Okay, and tell us something about the glass structures that Hoagland is talking about because he calls it “glass.” He says it’s a special kind of glass, but do you agree with him?

J: No.

K: Okay, and why not?

J: Because he’s talking about, I think, the Apollo 14 pictures and his thrust is those glass structures are domes.

K: Right.

J: And those domes are what contain the air. No. The air... it’s a thin atmosphere but as you know, according to Boyle’s Law, in an atmosphere, the lower it is, the thicker it is, so if you have... And I had some wonderful drawings I posted but I don’t see them here. As a matter of fact, I’m going to try and find them so that you can take a picture of them because they draw EXACTLY what I’m talking about.

The air settles into the craters and if you’re in the crater, you can breathe fine. If you get out of the crater it takes a little longer. But basically, the civilization of the Moon starts back at Newton. Somebody has influenced our thought about the Moon since the beginning of our thinking about anything.

Newton, for instance, he started to venture and say, you know, that there might be more mass on the Moon. And, that’s brought out in his three books now called Principia.

Shortly after Newton died, somebody modified his thoughts to make what is called the Newton Law of Universal Gravitation which is:

F = [G m1m2] / r2

...and he didn’t come up with that. That was somebody else. He didn’t think that you had to specify what the mass was.

But, anyway, in 1856 there was a Danish mathematician and astronomer named Peter Andreas Hansen. And he proposed ... He had been researching the times and the periods of Saturn and several other things. He was VERY knowledgeable. But, anyway, he was also looking at the Moon, and he had found something strange about the Moon - that when you did the predictions on where the Moon should be for a particular time, for its particular mass, it was not there.

And, so in 1856, he went before the Royal Society - Astronomical Society - and proposed that there was a “bump” on the far side of the Moon that was actually... The center of gravity was actually placed 57 kilometers farther out in space than had been generally realized. And, for that reason, he thought that there might be atmosphere on the far side. And, with this atmosphere, he thought there might be plants, vegetables, and maybe even human life.

So, he was regarded as a hero and a very interesting guy up until 1870, when a guy named Simon Newcomb came to Paris and told everybody that Peter Andreas Hansen was full of beans, there was not a shred of truth to it, and that, even if he was right about these different times, that it wouldn’t make any difference. So guess who Simon Newcomb was. He was a Rear Admiral in the US Navy and Head of the US Naval Observatory in Washington, DC.

The reason people have trouble with an atmosphere on the Moon is, to have an atmosphere, you have to have gravity. And people think that it’s one-sixth gravity. And they’ve been sold that over the years.

SOMEBODY has had an agenda here so that we DON’T think that there’s any gravity on the Moon, but there is. And, the way it can be proven is by using the Bullialdus/Newton Law of Inverse-Square, which takes the size of the planets - the diameter of the planets - and the neutral point. The neutral point is that point between the Earth and the Moon where the gravity of the Earth exactly meets the gravity of the Moon.

Now, NASA has traditionally told us that that’s 24,000 miles. And, if you work out the inverse-square law with 24,000 miles, the Moon does have one-sixth gravity. But, the fact is, the neutral point is at 43,495 miles. How do we know that? We know that because Wernher von Braun told us that in 1968. We know that because, in two of the books of Apollo, including Apollo 17 - and there was another Apollo mission - they specifically told, you know, they specifically said: Here we are at 39,000 miles and at the neutral point.

So, we KNOW that it’s between 39,000 and 43,000 miles. And either one of those would work out to be about 60–64% gravity of Earth. So, having 64% of gravity of Earth, it CAN hold an atmosphere.

And, well, people say: Well, if it has any atmosphere, how does it keep the atmosphere? Well, the same way the Earth does. They have forests, meadows, lakes, rivers, people, civilizations, and it’s on a band of the Moon that’s just beyond where we can see. And I have a picture here but I can’t find it. But it’s on a band. And that’s the same band that both Menger and Adamski visited.

I’m pretty sure Menger actually went to the Moon in 1954. They let him step out of the train and breathe the air. He’s now 86 years old, living in Vero Beach, Florida. I emailed ’im the other day to get the exact color of the Moon. And, if you could reach that picture, I could hold it up. It’s behind the cigar box. Of the Moon, the color picture of the...

Bill Ryan: I’m sorry John I don’t understand, I’m sorry, which one are you referring to?

J: It’s the long picture with the yellow sky.

K: Up at the top? You don’t mean on the wall, do you?

J: No. Behind the cigar box.

B: Oh! Here.

J: Yeah. Oh, I see... those cigar boxes.

B: I was looking at the...

J: No. Just hand me that photo right there.

B: Yeah. I’ve got you. I’ve never seen this before. Tell me what this is.

J: Okay, this is the crater Copernicus. And this is the same photo that’s up there [points to the wall] but all I did was put the exact color of the lunar sky. And how do I know that? Because I emailed Howard Menger in Florida, who took a trip there in 1954. And when he looked up into the sky, he said that’s the exact color he saw. He describes it as a saffron color. And I sent a number of swatches with different colors of saffrons to him in Florida and he marked the x on that particular color. And so I put that color behind the crater Copernicus. And that’s the color of the sky.

B: Why would it be that color? Why wouldn’t it be blue?

J: We think it’s that color because, although the atmosphere is not as dense as Earth, it’s higher. And the rays reflecting through the atmosphere will go more towards yellow.

B: But what you get on high mountains on Earth, for example, you just get a darker blue. I mean, I know that because I’ve been there. It would be a different composition of atmosphere in order to create that color effect, surely. It would contain different... different gases. Do you know anything about that?

J: No.

B: Okay.

J: All I know is, it’s breathable. He stepped out. He said it was very hot - but not as hot as we are led to believe - and he said he certainly couldn’t stand if for very long. But then he looked up and saw that color sky and now...

K: Can you tell us something about him? What is his background?

J: Howard was just a person living a normal life and they came and - or THEY - or the Moon people - came and invited him to go up there. He wrote this book called Secrets of the Flying Saucers from Outer Space: One Man’s Fantastic Revelations of Visitors from Other Worlds. He has a website. I’ve read this book several times, as you can see.

Here [holds up book] I’ve highlighted exactly what he says what he did on the Moon, where he was taken. There were a lot of other people. He said the places he went... one of the places was like the Valley of Fire in Nevada. He says: There we stop long enough for a guide to open the door and permit us to stick our heads out for a brief moment, which was all one could take, for it was terribly hot outside - like a blast furnace. I was certain that no one could have lived outside very long and was glad to have shut the door.

K: So is that maybe a basis for the domes as well, because you can regulate temperature? You can regulate...

J: Right. Yeah, I’m sure there’s small domes. I don’t think there’s any like Hoagland is saying though, huge domes all over the place.

[reading] Here he says: I looked up in the sky. It was a yellowish color. When looking, I had a queer impression that if I walked some distance I would fall off since the horizon was so foreshortened.

There was other groups with him along with ordinary folks - scientists, geologists, electronic engineers, rocket experts, astronomers.

K: But this guy is, you say, in his 80’s at this point?

J: 86. He was 86 the other day.

K: Have you met him in person?

J: Not in person. Only on email, and I’ve written to him.

K: But, basically as far as you’re concerned, he has no reason to lie. Right?

J: No. No, because his story is the same as George Adamski’s and Truman Bethurum’s. The other... what the government labeled as “contactees,” which was their way of saying: Yeah, well, you know, they’re just “contactees.” And I think both of them, both Adamski and Menger, became very important sources for the government.

When I first got into this, you know, 20 years ago, people would say: Do you think flying saucers are real? And, I would say: Yeah but, you know, the George Adamski stuff was all bullshit. It WASN’T! It was all real. So was Howard Menger. So was Truman Bethurum, and Daniel Fry. All those people were telling the exact truth!

But the fact is, if you’ve been to, you’ve seen the original government papers on who was involved in the anti-gravity project in 1952. And Lear Incorporated, my father’s company, is listed right there. And there’s a video floating around on the web that shows him at the blackboard teaching scientists at the Bahnson Institute how a flying saucer flies. And this was probably 1954/1955.

But, the fact is, we had anti-gravity solved in 1957 or 1958. And we started building our own craft and went to the Moon in 1962. And Mercury, Gemini, Apollo was just a COVER for all that was really going on.

B: Now, what do you say about the... all the NASA pictures, all the Apollo photos of the Moon that do not show the saffron sky? What’s going on?

J: Yeah, it always shows pure black. And the reason is, they couldn’t show the real color. That’s why all those photos are so fake. That’s why there’s no stars there. They didn’t have much of a choice, you know. They’re trying to say that it’s dark, that it’s a vacuum.

Well, first of all, it can’t be a vacuum because Neil Armstrong says he could pick up the dust with his toe. And we all know that a vacuum... that the dust will settle into a crust and you CAN’T pick it up with your toe. And, they couldn’t show the sky because it was a saffron color and that would lead everybody to believe there was atmosphere.

So I’m not sure whether Apollo 11 went and here’s why. Now, it may have gone to the Moon... the command surface module... and may have orbited the Moon. But the problem I have is, they only had 22,000 pounds of fuel and they went into an orbit that was about 50 miles by about 10 miles. This would be impossible with 64% gravity. But, even if it was, from ten miles they’d have to go down to the lunar surface, land, and then take off with 22,000 pounds of fuel. I don’t think that happened. I don’t think they could do it. That’s not enough fuel to do that.

Second of all, I have a group of friends that remote-viewed Apollo 11. Did it land? And they weren’t able to see any kind of landing. All they were able to see was, it was a CIA cover-up somehow.

The other one is Aldrin’s comment. And, I’d just like to read from Buzz Aldrin’s book.

B: All the astronauts had some interesting things to say, didn’t they?

J: Pardon? The what? Yeah.

Here’s what Aldrin says when he’s asked: How did it really feel to be on the Moon?

[reading] And he bristles. Quote: For Christ sake, I don’t know! I just don’t know! I have been frustrated since the day I left the Moon by that question.

K: Yeah. That’s amazing.

J: The fourth reason is the video of the light standard crashing... now – The One small step for a man. Now, that’s been alleged to have been a joke. But, if it was, it was extremely well done and very expensive.

My opinion? My opinion is that it was real, but that was during the filming. And I base that on little details like the ladder, like the shadows. Everything about that tape is real. I think that that was a real out-take of One small step for a man.

Number five: The Gs required to orbit and de-orbit. As you know, the lunar lander had no couches, had no seats, had no chairs. They stood up. They stood up and they had an armrest under here and one under here. [indicates under arms].

All they had was a little belt that came out from the side and wrapped around them. Now, that’s not even good for a seatbelt. They’re called “pilot restraints.” That’s all they had. And you’re telling me they came out of orbit at 50,000 feet and landed, and then blasted off, with an armrest? No. No, I don’t think that happened.

And the other is the different ladder. In any picture of One small step for a man and photos of the Apollo 11 taken AFTER that show a much thinner ladder - one made of tubular, looks like aluminum - compared to the one in One small step that is at least that thick [indicates about 3 inches] and it’s an L-shape.

So that’s my take. Apollo 11... I don’t think landed. The others, maybe, but I’m not sure. If they did, if ANY of them landed, it was with technology that used anti-gravity.

B: That’s... that’s what we were told. We were told that they had help. Otherwise they would not have been able to land.

J: That was the only way they could’ve done it.

B: And they wouldn’t have been able to get through the Van Allen Belts. Do you have any view about that?

J: I believe that to be true. The only reason I hesitate is because Bob Lazar told me that there was nothing dangerous about the Van Allen Belt. But what you say about the Van Allen Belt, “Sleeper” is adamant about. He said nobody can get through that. He said that’s a protective layer around the Earth so that we CAN’T get out. The only way that we COULD get out was with help.

K: Right. That’s what we’ve heard.

B: We were told that, too, from the inside. The same thing.

J: And that’s what Sleeper is very adamant about.

B: Very interesting. Okay. Now, I have to ask you about the standard rebuttal to the atmosphere issue, which is that when you are looking at the Moon through a telescope and you see a star, it doesn’t twinkle. It’s just crystal clear. It’s like it’s always there and then [snaps fingers] it suddenly disappears.

J: People who say that haven’t done that. First of all, if you read V.A. Firsoff’s book called The Strange World of the Moon, you will see that there are many instances of occultation. But the fact is, occultation can only occur... is if there is some sort of dust or kind of sediment in the atmosphere.

Here on Earth, there’s all kinds of problems up there. On the Moon, it’s clear, perfectly beautiful. You know, depending on the thickness, you may not see occultation. But, if you want to read The Strange World of the Moon by V.A. Firsoff, he lists at least 14 or 15 astronomers that have seen occultation.

B: Okay. I want to check my understanding of the issue of the center of gravity of the Moon being offset from the center of the Moon. Have I understood that right?

J: Correct. It’s 57 kilometers further away from Earth than is normally thought. And of course that’s confirmed by Apollo, too.

B: That doesn’t sound like it’s enough to make any difference to anything. That’s a very small amount... relative to the size of the Moon, at least.

J: Well, of course, we don’t know what the Moon’s made of. We don’t know how much, you know... how much actual weight that would be. But the fact is that the Moon does this... What do they call it? Where it spins at the top?

Yeah... What’s it called? [reading] Libration. Another Spaceship Moon mystery is its libration. And libration is the Spaceship Moon’s wobble. And this wobble is theorized by mainstream science to be caused by tidal lock. Tidal lock is a nonsensical theory to account for unknown forces, like “gravitons” to account for gravity.

Maybe the Spaceship Moon’s libration or wobble is caused by the rotation of the Moon about the location of the gravity B-wave generator, which is located further away from the Earth, from the center of the Spaceship Moon’s geocentric center. It’s curious to note that one cycle of libration is equal to one period of rotation of the Spaceship Moon.

B: Are you saying, therefore, that this is one of the causes for the gravity on the far side of the Moon, if you’re on the surface, to be greater than it is on this side? And so the atmosphere is on the other side of the Moon?

J: Peter Andreas Hansen felt that it was on the other side. But the fact is, if there was more gravity further, it would depend on the altitude whether the air was denser on the far side or the near side. What we don’t know for sure is the altitude, the mean altitude. If we knew that, we would be able to tell where the denser atmosphere is. But, in any case, the denser atmosphere is going to go to the lower portion.

B: Okay.

J: This is a picture of the Moon. And this was taken by Lick Observatory. And in any picture of the Moon you see - any picture from way back when, up until now - there’s a very bright spot up here which is called “Aristarchus.” If you ask NASA, or anything about it, they just say: It’s incredibly white. We don’t know what’s there or why it’s like that.

But, in fact, last summer we had an astronomer over in England take a picture and this shows it.
We found a - what we assume is a fission reactor - 29 miles in diameter. You can see the dome, there. [holds up photo of Moon showing reactor.]

K: Yeah. This is great stuff!

J: You can see the support sections there. And you can see the glow blue... the blue glow of radiation while the reactor is going.

K: Absolutely. So this is a nuclear reactor on the Moon. It’s visible on this side of the Moon, right?

J: Correct. And we’ve always been told it’s just... It’s whited out on any photo you see. They just take White-Out and they put it there. And, in fact, it’s a beautiful...

K: So this is really incredible! Did you talk to Hoagland about that?

J: I can’t remember whether I did. But I know he wouldn’t admit it. [holds up photo] This is the Clementine photo. You see how it’s been airbrushed? All it is, is just, you know, lines there.

B: We wondered whether you had any insights, intuitions, or anything else, about what happened to Steve Fossett.

J: I flew for Barron Hilton for three years, both his Hawker 125 and his Lear Jet. And many, many times went to the Flying “M” Ranch. And, so, I’m very familiar with that, very familiar with Barron. And, the fact is that the Navy Undersea Warfare Center is only 16 miles to the east.

It is just coincidence that it was only two days after I posted all this stuff on the internet about the sub, the Naval Undersea Warfare Center, and the battleship, and Hawthorne’s tie-in with the underground submarine base, that Steve Fossett disappeared. So what I theorize is, that he took off and was just flying down there, saw an interesting place, flew around, and the Navy commander looked up and said: I’ll betcha that’s John Lear. Shoot that son-of-a-bitch down.

K: [laughs]

J: So they shot him down. And they went over there... and they looked and found out it was Steve Fossett. And the admiral said: We made a mistake. I don’t want anybody ever to know about this. Get rid of the airplane and the body.

K: Crazy! That’s very crazy.

J: But, you know... I say that semi-tongue-in-cheek. There’s no reason for Steve Fossett to have disappeared like that. It’s just UNBELIEVABLE, considering the amount of money, the amount of airplane, the amount of time, that went into that search. How could he POSSIBLY disappear? You know?

The problems I have with... You know, when he first disappeared, we heard that he was looking for a straight-away for his car. Well, you know, it’s pretty obvious. You can look on a map. You need 7 miles. And there’s not many dry lakes that are 7 miles long. And all dry lakes are on a map. So he wouldn’t need to fly around to find some accidentally-undiscovered lake bed. I mean, it’s ridiculous!

K: Well, plus he’s not going to fly between the mountains for that, right?

J: No. And then, you know, we heard that he took his watch which had the automatic emergency signal. And then it turned out no, he didn’t have his watch. But, I will say this, the stories that he was shot down over restricted areas like Groom Lake or Tonopah Test Range are just ridiculous. That’s just not the way it happens.

K: I think he was recruited and sent to Mars or something, or the Moon.

J: Pardon?

K: I said think he was recruited... maybe forcibly, to work, you know, on Mars or the Moon.

J: He very well could have been. There’s some people that have disappeared I have some questions about. And the number one guy is Bob Nathan. Now, Bob Nathan was head of JPL’s Viking imaging. VERY well known... always accessible to the public.

Bob Lazar and I went down to see him PERSONALLY to ask him a question about Mars. We got badges. We were admitted personally. He told us everything he knew. You know, he was easily accessible. Now, you Google him on the... you Google him, and there’s no record of the guy!

K: Wow!

J: It’s like you go to Wikipedia and look for John Lear... He does not exist. And if you look into the records on Wikipedia, the only thing that’s said: No substantiation for anything he claimed. And that’s it on Wikipedia. Now, you can find Bob Lazar, Bill Lear, you know, the Man on the Moon, Howard Menger, everybody else, but you can’t find John Lear on Wikipedia.

K: So Bob Nathan has disappeared, as far as you know?

J: As far as Google. Yeah, I can’t find him. And, the reason I looked for him was because I was telling the story of when Bob and I went down to JPL. The reason we went down there is, Bob just got out of S-4. At S-4 he was shown a picture of what they call “Cydonia.” And there’s pyramids there and “the Face” on Mars. He was shown very clear pictures. And on the pyramids there was no doubt he could see doors, windows, handles, door handles, everything.

K: Wow!

J: I mean, it was a place where somebody lived. So, our question was to Bob Nathan: Were there any other pictures taken, other than the two that Hoagland and DiPietro put in their book?

And he said: No, not that we know of.

And so then we said: Well, you know, these pictures were taken at a very low altitude. Was Viking ever taken lower than the pictures that Hoagland and DiPietro have?

And Nathan said: Yes, but we didn’t take any pictures from that lower altitude.

K: [laughs] Right.

J: So what that tells us is how compartmentalization works again. Bob Nathan knew one part of his program, but Bob Nathan is not the head of the program, you know. He just is the front man for the certain things that he does, you know. It’s the guys down in Australia... you know, Canberra, that get the original signals that tell, you know, exactly what’s going on.

K: Right.

J: We had a girl named Kathy Thomas that worked at Goldstone. And she used to tell us some funny stories, Bob and me. Because, she would get the signals from Australia, and she’d say: We’d be sitting there waiting for Mars signals, and it would be 24 hours and they’d say... they’d send a message down and say: “Well, you guys done airbrushing those pictures? We need them.”
You know?

K: [laughs]

J: So anyway, she invited me and Bob down to Goldstone and we got the royal tour. I mean, we got up in the antenna and all the different places there. It was really great! Unfortunately, she got canned about two weeks after that, and she went to work for Raytheon, up at the test site. And I haven’t heard a word from her since.

K: Oh, wow.

J: Now, Bob says he’s heard from her.

K: Oh yeah?

J: But once you go to work there, you don’t talk to anybody. For instance, if you go to work for Space Command in Colorado Springs, when you get hired you’re told to say goodbye to ALL your friends, because you’re going to have a whole new set of friends. And they don’t want you to accidentally, you know, meet an old friend and say: Hey, you know, you’ll never guess what I’m doing now!

They’re serious. They say: Say goodbye to your old buddies because you are NOT going to see them again. And that’s how they avoid those little mix-ups like that.

K: Wow. Incredible stuff.

B: Are you saying that Bob Lazar was shown detailed pictures of Cydonia at S-4 when he was working there?

J: Yeah, yeah, he was shown the pictures of the pyramids and the...

K: Do you know WHY he was shown those pictures?

J: Part of his briefing. They told him, you know: These are the bases we had on the Moon, the base we had on Mars.

B: What does he remember about what he was told about the Mars base? You know, its function, and how big it is, and who else is there?

J: Nothing. I’ve told you everything he told me. And all that was, that he was shown the picture. We went down to ask Nathan about it and that’s all he was told. When you decide what you’re going to pursue, that’s all they tell you about. And his pursuit and his job he wanted to do... back-engineer the propulsion. They don’t brief you into anything else.

Another interesting thing I wanted to talk to Dan Burisch about... You know, what sold me on Dan Burisch was the DETAIL of the formalities. You know, when you get out of the airplane, what are they doing? Dan Burisch... I watched that video tape. You know, he spent an hour telling EXACTLY what they do! It was so detailed! I don’t see how anybody couldn’t believe that stuff.

K: Right.

J: I mean... you just couldn’t make that stuff up about being escorted here, and the changing of the guard and all that stuff. But, one of the things he said... he was weighed, you know. They’re weighed in and out very carefully, you know. And what I want to tell him is, the reason that just came up a couple of years ago is because that started with Bob Lazar. [laughs]

Because on one of his trips up there, he took that little 110 camera that was just about that big [indicates small size]. And they didn’t search them in those days. And he walked right into S-4 with it. And he had a chair, and he leaned back like that, and he put it up into the leg. And, then he was going to take a picture and bring it out. But he had his problem before he got it out. So after he left, somebody found that camera! And that’s when all the weighing started! [laughing]

K: [laughing] That’s a great story!

Okay, John, now one last question. You flew for years and years and years, right? As a major airline pilot. OK? So you were up there quite a bit. Did you ever see a UFO when you were flying?

J: You know, as I explain to people, when you’re flying, you’re not looking for UFOs. You’re looking at the instruments and seeing where you’re going OR, in my case, sleeping. And then at night, you know, when it’s easier to see UFOs, you’re not looking outside. First of all, you’ve got a brightly lit instrument panel here and it’s reflecting on the window, and there are all kinds of reflections around. You’re paying attention to what’s going on, or, like me, sleeping.

And so, it’s very difficult. You wouldn’t notice. You wouldn’t have the CHANCE to notice a UFO. You would have to put your face up to the window and cup your hands, you know, and who’s going to do that? You know?

K: Right.

J: But yes, there’s twice I saw UFOs.

K: [laughs]

J: Once was in 1966, on descent into Los Angeles, in a Lear Jet, over Palm Springs on that LONG descent through Panning Pass. And I was descending and I saw a white object going left to right across the front of me. And it looked exactly like an M2-F2 - and that’s the “flying bathtub” that, you know, the Seven Million Dollar Man crashed in.

Remember that series? It didn’t have any engines. It had a little engine, but that was for landing. It just looked like a flying bathtub.

K: You mean the Six Million Dollar Man, right?

J: Yeah. And so when I landed I even took the time to call the chief pilot of Lear Jet, Hank Beard, and I said: Hey! You’re never going to believe what I saw! The M2-F2 passed me today, you know, going into Palm Springs. Only years later did I realize how ridiculous that was! [Kerry laughs] That an M2-F2 would be flying across the main approach path to Los Angeles International Airport, you know. They only flew that thing way out in the desert. So, you know, obviously that was something else.

K: So twice... so that’s one.

J: And then in a Lockheed L1011, here just before I retired, with Kittyhawk International, going westbound over the Midwest. No, it was just like, south of Chicago. I was looking south... and of course the guys I flew with... you know, no one was interested in UFOs. They didn’t want to know about it. They didn’t want me to point out any UFOs. I didn’t even bother looking. Besides, I’m usually asleep anyway. But it just happened that I was woken up here this time.

And it was very, very dark and very quiet. And I saw this thing come like this and go [makes explosive sound and indicates upward direction]...just way, way out into outer space. And I said: Wow! That was really something! And then I saw another one. BAM, out the other way! I said: Boy, that’s really something! You know, I ought to tell these guys, but as soon as I do there’s not going to be another one. And I’m going to look like an idiot.

So, then, here comes the third one... BOOM! Like that!

And I said: Well, I’m going to try it. And I said: Hey guys, I want you to look at something over here.

And we were looking over there and a fifth one came, and it went BOOM, like that! And both of them sat down and said: Boy, I never saw anything like that! So that was the second time. And it was really great because they both got to see it. There was no denying it.

K: That’s amazing. Wow!

J: I mean, they were both in a state of shock.

K: That’s fabulous!

J: And, you know, it was definitely a UFO. It was too small to see what...

K: So, what year was that, do you remember?

J: It would have been in ’98... ’97 or ’98.

K: Oh, not that long ago.

J: So I’m sure that must have been our stuff.


Okay. So people say: Okay, John, there’s flying saucers and Reptilians and secret bases and secret satellites. And we did our own 911 - we bombed ourselves. And there’s wars and you say there’s nuke wars coming. You know, what are we supposed to do with all this? I mean, what’s the point of all this?

The point of all this is to try and advance in your... in your life. And the way that you can do that is to try and live your life without envy, hate or greed. Also, to spend as much time with your family and tell them how much you love them. That’s really all we can do.

We can’t be responsible for the bad guys. We can’t be responsible for the children that are having so much trouble in the world. We can’t be responsible for the nuclear wars if they are going on. All we can do is be responsible for ourselves. And that’s to live our lives without envy, hate or greed, and to tell each member of our family how much we love them, and to tell them that every day.

J: I TRY living without envy, hate and greed. But there are sure a lot of assholes out there so...

K: That’s great! I think we’ll make that our ending.

[laughter] [theme music comes up]

Lunch Break

J: What are you worried about?

K: We’re worried about losing...

B: We’re just worried about losing good stuff when we’re not on camera.

J: [laughing] because I’m not wired up.

B: Because, if you’re not wired up to the mike, it’s lost forever. Then we think we’ve got it, but it was actually over lunch. We have to control the environment here. That’s why...

J: That’s exactly right.

B: And it’s so easy to forget. It’s like, s**t, this is like something you told us over a coffee break!

Conversation Over Lunch [audio only]

J: He says: You blew her off a couple of years ago at your front door. She came to talk to you and you told her to, you know, take a hike. I said: Unbelievable!

K: [laughs]

So, anyway, I called up Angela and it just happened that a couple of weeks later she was running a full week course.

The reason I wanted to take remote-viewing was because I’m not the least bit psychic. I don’t know when my wife’s mad. [Kerry and Bill laugh] I don’t know when the doorbell’s going to ring. I don’t know when the telephone’s going to ring. And I wanted to find out if I could remote-view.

And the answer was POSITIVELY ABSOLUTELY! I was shocked at the stuff I could do.

K: Wonderful.

J: And one of the things we did is, each day one guy got to send the others, to “task” the others. And I tasked them Venus. And I did no front-loading, you know, which means I’m giving advance information.

K: I’ve taken remote-viewing.

J: I said nothing. And at the end I had to laugh ’cause everyone, you know, when they cooled down, said: Wow! What a place! I’d love to go THERE! You know, because it’s beautiful there.

K: OH, that’s great.

J: And it was really satisfying to do that.

K: Cool. Yeah. Well see, there you go.

J: What happens... In the late 50’s we had a couple of Navy people who used a balloon, checking out the atmosphere of Venus. And they said there’s probably an atmosphere, and, you know, for all intents and purposes, probably life there. So, for whatever reason, we had to put a stop to that.

And, I theorize that they got some general around a table like this with his aids and he was telling them: So here’s the plan: [Kerry laughs] We got to be sure that nobody believes there’s life on Venus, so I need you guys to give me some ideas now. Let’s think this through.

And so, one guy say: How about an atmosphere of sulfuric acid?

The guy says: Good, good, I like that... atmosphere of sulfuric acid! Now, come on guys, let’s think outside the box here. What else?

Well, how about volcanoes, exploding volcanoes? Better yet, we’ll make a volcano every square mile on Venus, with lots of lava flowing around.

Okay, come on, let’s get some more ideas here. How about 90 bars of pressure?

That’s good, good! 90 bars of pressure! Nobody could live with 90 bars of pressure, 90 times the pressure on Earth. He says: I think we got a good, good program here.

And so one of the captains says: You know, General, I don’t think anybody’s going to believe this bullshit. I mean, how could that all happen to a planet, you know, so close to us? I mean, why would there be sulfuric acid and exploding volcanoes, you know, and 90 bars of pressure?

And he says: Don’t you worry about that, son. If we say it loud enough and long enough, they’ll believe it!

And so that’s how the new planet Venus was born!

K: Incredible. Well, I mean, that’s actually a believable scenario, what you just laid out.

J: Well, both Adamski and Menger... I think they both either saw it or went there.

K: There’s also supposed to be some case of a human-looking alien visitor in the White House?

B: This is Valiant Thor. This is theStranger at the Pentagon.

J: Val Thor? Val Thor. Yes.

B: Yeah, Val Thor. That was told by Frank Stranges who wrote this book called Stranger at the Pentagon. And if I remember right - I haven’t read the book - if I remember right, Val Thor was supposedly from Venus. And that was before they decided to cancel the Venus story.

K: Right.

B: What do you know about that?

J: Only that his - Val’s ship - was supposed to be parked right out here at Lake Mead. And I have the co-ordinates right here. You can go right up there and see where it was. But that’s all I know about Val Thor.

B: One of the people who we met after we interviewed you was Bob Dean, who you must know quite well. Wonderful man. And he told us that the aliens who the authorities were most worried by were the ones who are indistinguishable from ourselves.

K: Right.

B: And who were walking the corridors of the Pentagon, and in government, and in the military and, you know... Walking down the street, you’d never know the difference. Have you heard anything about that?

K: Have you heard that?

J: There are aliens like that. But the problem is, we allied ourselves with the wrong aliens. We think that the Grays are our enemy. And that’s why we built those twelve... or at least twelve... weapons-based platforms for the direct energy weapons that circle the globe now. And we started in 1968, before Apollo ever went, and we’ve been building it ever since.

K: Hmm.

J: And what they intend to do - and when I say “they” I’m talking about the Nasty-NASA-Nazis - is, if they can’t get rid of the Grays, they’re going to blow up Earth. Because they don’t want the Grays to have what they consider the prize. They don’t understand that there’s BILLIONS of Earths. There’s billions of Earths, just identical to us, all in various stages of development, you know? And they think they’re going to destroy Earth. And they’re not.

Now, in support of that story, one of the first things Bob told me that night was, he saw a message that we sent to the owners of the Grays. And it was: Either you help us get rid of the Grays, or nobody’s going to have Earth.

And that’s when Bob told me about this super-weapon that we have, that could destroy a continent half the size of South America. And since then, I’ve heard, you know, really knowledgeable guys say: Yeah. We have some really frightening weapons. And I’m not sure how it’s going to turn out.

So the plan is, the guys who run all of this stuff are going to destroy... The plan is to destroy us if they can’t get rid of the Grays. And of course they’re not going to get rid of the Grays. The Grays are ALL OVER the friggin’ place!

K: Right.

J: I can’t say they’re beneficial. They have a job to do and that’s to take care of the “containers.” Sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s evil. But that’s their job. And there’s nobody who’s going to interfere with that. So they will almost certainly protect us from any kind of disaster that’s going to come along. But meanwhile the Nasty-NASA-...

K: Okay, but what about the Reptilians?

J: They’re a separate deal, I’m sure. They have their own civilization. They’re probably underground.

K: Well, I mean, you certainly know that there’s more than one kind of Gray, right?

J: Yeah. There’s plenty of them and there’s plenty different types of Reptilians. And Ron Schmidt and I are talking with a guy, really a knowledgeable scientist, you know, a guy that would sit down and be comfortable about talking about anything. And he told us his first encounter with a Reptilian. And it was so believable. He was working across the lab. And he just looks over at this guy and asks him a question. And he says the second eyelid went down for a second, you know! [laughs].

K: [laughs]

B: [We’ve been] contacted by somebody who’s a scientist, who actually is a nephew of one of the ex-CIA Directors. He’s a solid, very smart guy. And he went in just for a couple of days at one point to do a particular technical job in Dulce. This is how this whole conversation started. And as part of his briefing for going to Dulce, he was told about what he should do if he should encounter a Reptilian. This was part of the briefing, very matter-of-fact.

And, what he was told is, if you encounter one of these guys, you drop your hands with your palms open to show that it’s a gesture of supplication. It shows that you’re not a threat. But you don’t do that... you do that. And he said that that’s what you do with these guys. And then they’ll leave you alone.

And he did encounter one of these. He encountered one Reptilian in silent communication with one Gray - and just on one occasion, just for a few moments. And he did what he was told, you know. And he said that this large creature was awesome and arrogant and cold, and looked like he could just, you know, kill you with a single blow.

J: Uh huh.

B: And you know, just back away... back away slowly. And everyone was cool. Everything was cool. And he told us this in a very matter-of-fact way. Does that match what you’ve heard?

J: Absolutely. 100%... It sounds like many stories that I’ve heard...

(continued from Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3)


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Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy